Cheap houses in Philly? (Philadelphia, Pittsburgh: for sale, safe area, to buy)

[PreservationPioneer]

I was recently looking at houses for sale on realty websites in Philadelphia. I notice that there are a lot of small row-homes on the market for under $20,000. Some were in neighborhoods such as Allegheny West and Belmont. As a mid-20s white gay male, do you think that a community like this would be too dangerous for me to live in? Or do you think, as the urban pioneer that I am, that it might be feasible to buy a cheap row-house in the city and live in it? I currently live in a declined industrial community in Pittsburgh, so I am familiar with blight and deterioration, and it doesn't bother me. But is there a significant safety concern in these Philly neighborhoods? Are there $20k row-houses in Philly that are located in liveable (i.e. I won't get shot) neighborhoods? Thanks!

[PreservationPioneer]

I was recently looking at houses for sale on realty websites in Philadelphia. I notice that there are a lot of small row-homes on the market for under $20,000. Some were in neighborhoods such as Allegheny West and Belmont. As a mid-20s white gay male, do you think that a community like this would be too dangerous for me to live in? Or do you think, as the urban pioneer that I am, that it might be feasible to buy a cheap row-house in the city and live in it? I currently live in a declined industrial community in Pittsburgh, so I am familiar with blight and deterioration, and it doesn't bother me. But is there a significant safety concern in these Philly neighborhoods? Are there $20k row-houses in Philly that are located in liveable (i.e. I won't get shot) neighborhoods? Thanks!

[theatergypsy]

angel, I think you stand a better chance of a reply if you post this in the Philadelphia forum of C-D. Also, check out Philadelphia Speaks and the various sections of the city have lots of info regarding crime, blight and urban pioneering (gentrifying) in the City of Brotherly Love.
As a native Philadelphian, long-since away, I mourn for the city in which I grew up. But that's my opinion.

[tarp]

No. You would not be safe living in any $20k rowhouse in Philly. It's a completely different animal from Pittsburgh, where some $20k properties, while sketchy, are certainly liveable. I can tell you that both of the neighborhoods you mentioned are very dangerous.

[Marius Pontmercy]

PHA is auctioning off about a third of its unused scattered site units. There's a chance you might be able to find one in an up and coming area. Otherwise, when you're seeing those low prices you're seeing them in the most depressed parts of the city. I generally use property value trends of owner-occupied units to determine which direction a neighborhood is headed in, or the current state it already is in. You would have to watch the area for a while and then make a big gamble that the neighborhood would improve in say... 10 years. It's a huge risk, especially in areas far away from any recent developments. Plus, there's the danger factor, and the QOL issues you'd have to deal with. There are some areas that are actually that depressed, but are much better bets for redevelopment than West Allegheny or Belmont.

[Aimewitue]

Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy

PHA is auctioning off about a third of its unused scattered site units. There's a chance you might be able to find one in an up and coming area. Otherwise, when you're seeing those low prices you're seeing them in the most depressed parts of the city. I generally use property value trends of owner-occupied units to determine which direction a neighborhood is headed in, or the current state it already is in. You would have to watch the area for a while and then make a big gamble that the neighborhood would improve in say... 10 years. It's a huge risk, especially in areas far away from any recent developments. Plus, there's the danger factor, and the QOL issues you'd have to deal with. There are some areas that are actually that depressed, but are much better bets for redevelopment than West Allegheny or Belmont.

Which areas are much better bets for redevelopment in your opinion. Francesville and the area over by graduate hospital are two that i would think could be redeveloped

[toobusytoday]

This thread has been moved from the NEPA forum (and merged with another existing thread. Tone509)

[Marius Pontmercy]

Originally Posted by Aimewitue

Which areas are much better bets for redevelopment in your opinion. Francesville and the area over by graduate hospital are two that i would think could be redeveloped

Not could, but already have been. You can't buy land for anywhere near that cheap in those neighborhoods now, and renovated rowhouses are going for upwards of $350,000 in those areas, or more, depending on how close you are to the boundaries of Center City. Other areas to look into would be Newbold, or moving up the Fairmount/Art Museum neighborhood towards Girard Ave. Also I would say areas like East Kensington around Norris Square. I've been told that area is reminiscent of NoLibs in the 80s, and I do know of people who are beginning to move there, or have already been there for some years now. It's close proximity to Fishtown as well. If you really want to go beyond the pale, I would say northern and eastern Point Breeze. It's the only neighborhood I would wager you'll see big changes over a ten year period. Places like Belmont, Mantua, Strawberry Mansion, and Walnut Hill, while I think they have the possibility of being gentrified over the next 10-20 years, have a lot working against them. Other things need to happen first before we start talking about those areas. If demand can't be met even after Point Breeze/SWCC, Newbold, Francisville, and other gentrifying areas fill up, then we can talk. But I don't think that'll be for a while yet.

[Clark Park]

The areas mentioned where it is possible to buy a rowhome for $20,000 are NOT safe areas. Besides, these houses must be in dreadful condition, with roofing problems, in need of professional exterminators, new plumbing and heating systems, etc.

I think of American cities on the East Coast, Philly is probably the most affordable. It is still possible to buy a livable two story brick rowhouse in a neighborhood that isn't a 'war zone' populated by drug traffickers and street gangs for about $100,000 ... but not $20,000.

If you want to be a pioneer, consider the "fringe" of already established gentrifying areas. One that comes to my mind is West Powelton Village near Penn Presbyterian Hospital ... still a bit of a "ghetto" but tidy with pretty little houses and just several blocks from University City.

[PreservationPioneer]

Thanks for the replies. I assumed that these houses were in dangerous neighborhoods, but wanted to be sure. Some of them were actually in decent condition, but I guess the bad neighborhoods in Philly are a lot worse than the bad neighborhoods in Pittsburgh.