deciding between philly and DC (Philadelphia, Chester: transplants, real estate, crime)

[nextphase]

Hi, I'm planning to leave SoCal and move back to either the DC area or Philly. I've been fortunate to have lived in both cities (for about 2 years each - but it was a while ago), and I enjoyed my time in each place for different reasons. I'm leaving SoCal because I would like to be less dependent on my car, I appreciate the proximity of east-coast cities to each other and miss the ease of being able to go to Europe to visit family. It will also be a good move for me career-wise. I'm sure things have changed a lot in the last 6 years and would appreciate any opinions/misgivings/feedback. FYI - I don't have kids and will be job-hunting once I move. Thanks for all your input. I've also posted this on the Washington, DC forum and apologize if i've done the wrong thing by repeating the same request on 2 forums (I'm new to this). Thanks!

[Johnland]

While I haven't been to DC lately, I have been to Philly several times over the past few years. I would definitely advise you to check out Center City Philadelphia. Very walkable, lots of restaurants and cafes. We walked around and felt very safe. Alot of the cafes have sidewalk tables and restuarants take down the glass in the street front indows in good weather. Makes for a great neighborhood.

[rainrock]

Center City Philly is the 3rd most populous downtown in the usa with about 90,000 residents. It also has a daytime business population of another 250,000 people in a pretty confined area. It has become one of the most vibrant downtowns in the usa. The only fall back is occassional crime from the dirtbags that crawl in from the surrounding ghetto's. By and large though, a great place to live.

[FindingZen]

Well I moved from Philly to DC two years ago so it may seem at first that I'm not the best person to answer this question... but Philly can be a great place if you can make it work for you.

First off, you get more bang for your buck (and relatively less sprawl) than any other major Northeastern city. As [b]rainrock[b] mentioned, Center City is a great place to work, live and play, provided you have the funds to do so.

Although Center City is humming during office hours, it does appear that the majority of job growth is going on outside the city in areas that are generally difficult to impossible to reach via mass transit. The DC metro is a half-step closer to addressing this issue. But this situation is typical of most larger cities, for better or worse.

Crime in Philly is an issue that has been publicized in the city. DC certainly has its fair share of issues as well. IMO crime and the location of job centers per my previous paragraph are inter-related to some extent.

Since you don't raising a family, the condition of schools in Philly and DC won't matter to you. Because the cost of living is higher in DC, city neighborhoods are being gentrified to accomodate middle-to-upper class residents at a faster rate than in Philly. Because DC itself is actually only about one-quarter the size of Philly, there are other small urbanized cities that have taken up the slack. For example, Bethesda, Chevy Chase and Rockville in MD as well as Arlington, Alexandria and Reston in VA.
But barring a real estate collapse, I can believe that the time will come sooner than later when someone can travel from say, the Temple University area in the north through Center City and down through to the stadiums in South Philly and feel relatively comfortable and safe throughout.

With all due respect to the exurban job market in Philly, the Washington metro has arguably the best unemployment rate in the country, including the city itselfs and other relatively convenient areas. However, since "everyone else" has already figured this out, prepare to work flex-time, commute more than an hour, or otherwise sit in traffic to get to those opportunities in the nation's capital.

You can take the train to Philly's airport. DC has three in the area. National Airport is easiest to get to but Dulles has more international flights. BWI between DC and Baltimore can have some good deals thanks to the "Southwest effect".

I can't offer a definitive answer for you. If I felt I could have found more gainful employment in Center City for my field, perhaps it would have been more difficult for my ladyfriend to convince me to join her in VA. However, your mileage will certainly vary. I'd highly encourage you to visit both places and decide for yourself.

[PUB]

If cost of living is a factor then you want to rule out DC. Housing prices are crazy compared to Philadelphia. If you can get an equivalent job in both places then the question is easy to me.

[nobbysz33]

If you are looking to be less reliant on your car, move to DC. DC has the second largest metro system next to NYC. If you can find a decent place next to a metro, you can walk/metro it to work. While real estate is more expensive there, it is more expensive for a reason. DC functions a lot better as a city.

The buildings in center city Philadelphia are emptying out because companies are moving to the Philly suburbs (King of Prussia, West Chester). I moved to Philly thinking I could get a decent job downtown and take public transportation to work, but I have found that the best jobs are in the suburbs. Now I drive an hour each way on what Philly calls a highway (76 has only has 2 lanes once you get outside of Philly). On top of that, the public transportation is ages behind DC.

I've been considering moving to DC and I have been there many times. It is much easier to not have a car in DC.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by nobbysz33

If you are looking to be less reliant on your car, move to DC. DC has the second largest metro system next to NYC. If you can find a decent place next to a metro, you can walk/metro it to work. While real estate is more expensive there, it is more expensive for a reason. DC functions a lot better as a city.

DC functions where it wants to function. Otherwise, it is EXTREMELY bureaucratic and neglectful of important issues such as public education, housing costs, and crime in select parts of the city.

Originally Posted by nobbysz33

The buildings in center city Philadelphia are emptying out because companies are moving to the Philly suburbs (King of Prussia, West Chester). I moved to Philly thinking I could get a decent job downtown and take public transportation to work, but I have found that the best jobs are in the suburbs. Now I drive an hour each way on what Philly calls a highway (76 has only has 2 lanes once you get outside of Philly). On top of that, the public transportation is ages behind DC.

You're right that DC's public transportation is one of the most well-kept and most efficient in the country (what else would you expect from a city that receives direct federal funding?), but in terms of which is the most comprehensive, Philly definitely has DC beat. Sure, the infrastructure is a lot older in Philly, but as far as bus service lines and the number of stations relative to different points in the city, the Metro is pretty limited.

Also, I had to hold back my laughter if you're criticizing 76. Compared to the Beltway, 76 is a cakewalk. Traffic around Philly is absolutely NOTHING compared to the DC area. It's not uncommon for commuters to spend 3 or more hours out of their day driving.

Originally Posted by nobbysz33

I've been considering moving to DC and I have been there many times. It is much easier to not have a car in DC.

I thought about living here in the future, but then I came here for college and realized how I would never want to live here long-term. There are a lot of nice things about DC, and there is a wonderful abundance of well-paying jobs -- but the cost-of-living certainly offsets any gains you make in income. Also, the abundant self-centered attitude here is a HUGE turn-off. Think CRITICALLY about the pros and cons of living here, because the many transplants that do come to DC don't do that enough, which is why it is such a transient place. Personally, I am excited to move to Philadelphia in the future.

[nobbysz33]

You should be laughing. No major city should consider 2 lanes a highway.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by nobbysz33

You should be laughing. No major city should consider 2 lanes a highway.

It's actually a FOUR lane highway when you include the northbound and southbound lanes together -- not to mention it expands to 6 lanes once you're actually in the city.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d8/Schuylkill_Expressway_Sept_2007.jpg (broken link)

[BPP1999]

Originally Posted by nobbysz33

You should be laughing. No major city should consider 2 lanes a highway.

Hey nobby, stop name-calling and pay attention to the reasons:

I76 is old.
It's built on the side of a cliff.
On the other side of the highway from the cliff are railroad tracks and a river.
Widening the Schuylkill Expressway requires more than adding 12 feet to each direction.

Unlike where you might be from, this region did not sprout around interstates. Interstates were "put" between our communities.

Don't get me wrong; I agree with you 100%, the thing needs to be widened. I also believe that it can be. In fact, I remember reading a report from the 70s that said that widening would not be that terribly difficult.

If you live here, write your state politicians, write the governor, and write PennDot. Don't just sit around pissing and moaning on a blog.