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Old 07-27-2012, 02:20 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,757,245 times
Reputation: 4580

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Laughable , best system....hahahahah NJT is the best system in the US.
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:01 PM
 
2,933 posts, read 4,087,820 times
Reputation: 2784
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome View Post
Well, the MTA is very actively upgrading and expanding their infrastructure at the present so I'm not sure where you're going with that one.
And Toronto? Vancouver? Montreal?
I'm going with - the MTA has only recently started what is going to take 20 years, whereas SEPTA has finished (or is almost finished) with most of the major projects. MTA has a much larger system and has the same problems in Albany that SEPTA has in Harrisburg.

But i'm not honestly trying to compare SEPTA to MTA on any level. The only other systems in the Americas that should be mentioned in the same breath are Buenos Aires and Mexico D.F.

Toronto has a lot of problems and a lot of political inaction right now. Granted, most of those problems are related to overcrowding on the subway and trolleys but while they're still arguing over expansion and on how much money to spend and on what they have their own major overhaul problems looming around the corner. CCT is also broke. They also only run the city transit. GO Transit runs the RR and suburban buses.

Vancouver - sure, their ridership is in the SEPTA ballpark and one company runs the whole system but it's basically a bus and light rail system. There's no heavy rail, a bunch of ferries and what, one RR line?

Montreal - again, much busier system than SEPTA and they don't run the RR.

Montreal, Toronto and Chicago would be apt comparisons.
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
1,567 posts, read 3,100,739 times
Reputation: 1664
It's 1000 degrees outside and I'm riding on an unairconditioned bus as I type this. Just saying.
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:22 PM
 
Location: back in Philadelphia!
3,263 posts, read 5,623,357 times
Reputation: 2120
Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
I'm going with - the MTA has only recently started what is going to take 20 years, whereas SEPTA has finished (or is almost finished) with most of the major projects. MTA has a much larger system and has the same problems in Albany that SEPTA has in Harrisburg.

But i'm not honestly trying to compare SEPTA to MTA on any level. The only other systems in the Americas that should be mentioned in the same breath are Buenos Aires and Mexico D.F.

Toronto has a lot of problems and a lot of political inaction right now. Granted, most of those problems are related to overcrowding on the subway and trolleys but while they're still arguing over expansion and on how much money to spend and on what they have their own major overhaul problems looming around the corner. CCT is also broke. They also only run the city transit. GO Transit runs the RR and suburban buses.

Vancouver - sure, their ridership is in the SEPTA ballpark and one company runs the whole system but it's basically a bus and light rail system. There's no heavy rail, a bunch of ferries and what, one RR line?

Montreal - again, much busier system than SEPTA and they don't run the RR.

Montreal, Toronto and Chicago would be apt comparisons.
Right, but I mean.. do you think SEPTA is actually better than those systems? Or you're just listing which systems are/aren't of comparable scope?
I don't think that an absolutely consistent apples to apples organizational comparison is really necessary, since most large city transit systems are complicated & site-specific and are set up the way that they are as the result of unique historical circumstances.
I'm just taking this APTA claim at face value, and saying..."huh?"

It's good PR for SEPTA regardless, and it would be nice if it got some more people to take some pride in it. But I certainly DON'T think it's a "model" for the way a city/regional transit agency should be set up, or should be run, or that "all 9,000 septa employees" deserve commendation, as was said in that article (lol).
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
12,000 posts, read 12,853,256 times
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The only way Septa could be labeled as "best of the best" is if it were combined with MTA and NJ Transit. Still don't understand why the NJ Transit from Penn Station can't just go all the way through to 30th Street. That would be one beastly transit system, and will only make more sense as the two respective metros continue to absorb into each other.
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:07 PM
 
2,933 posts, read 4,087,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome View Post
Right, but I mean.. do you think SEPTA is actually better than those systems? Or you're just listing which systems are/aren't of comparable scope?
I don't think that an absolutely consistent apples to apples organizational comparison is really necessary, since most large city transit systems are complicated & site-specific and are set up the way that they are as the result of unique historical circumstances.
I'm just taking this APTA claim at face value, and saying..."huh?"
In some ways SEPTA is better than some of those systems. In other ways it isn't. If you live in Philly and have a monthly SEPTA pass using the system is relatively easy and the things you're going to complain about are the same things people complain about when using transit the world over. The problems that I see as unique to SEPTA are a lack of foresight when it comes to fare media. They should've spent the last 15 years targeting off-peak riders with special fare media (2 hour passes, 4 hour passes, day passes, etc with free transfers built in) and they should've been working with the city, suburban municipalities and developers to get a TOD program going. You increase revenue by selling tickets for seats that would otherwise go empty and by getting people to live and work closer to your stations.

I think apples to apples is important because rebuilding a system that's 150 years old in places is different than building one from scratch starting 20 years ago (like Denver or Dallas). Those systems don't need new tracks, new catenary, new viaducts, new signals, PTC, etc. It's also not valuable to try to compare Chicago to SEPTA - where the CTA has a much larger system, a lot more passengers to work around and a lot more work to do in repairing the system. The CTA also isn't running a RR - which takes an incredible amount of resources away from SEPTA's transit operations.

How great the average rider finds a transit system has a lot to do with with how long they have to wait, how long it takes to get where they're going and how many useful destinations it has. Until relatively recently there haven't been many places to go on SEPTA outside of the traditional 9-5 inbound/outbound scenario.
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:38 PM
 
Location: back in Philadelphia!
3,263 posts, read 5,623,357 times
Reputation: 2120
Quote:
Originally Posted by drive carephilly View Post
In some ways SEPTA is better than some of those systems. In other ways it isn't. If you live in Philly and have a monthly SEPTA pass using the system is relatively easy and the things you're going to complain about are the same things people complain about when using transit the world over. The problems that I see as unique to SEPTA are a lack of foresight when it comes to fare media. They should've spent the last 15 years targeting off-peak riders with special fare media (2 hour passes, 4 hour passes, day passes, etc with free transfers built in) and they should've been working with the city, suburban municipalities and developers to get a TOD program going. You increase revenue by selling tickets for seats that would otherwise go empty and by getting people to live and work closer to your stations.

I think apples to apples is important because rebuilding a system that's 150 years old in places is different than building one from scratch starting 20 years ago (like Denver or Dallas). Those systems don't need new tracks, new catenary, new viaducts, new signals, PTC, etc. It's also not valuable to try to compare Chicago to SEPTA - where the CTA has a much larger system, a lot more passengers to work around and a lot more work to do in repairing the system. The CTA also isn't running a RR - which takes an incredible amount of resources away from SEPTA's transit operations.

How great the average rider finds a transit system has a lot to do with with how long they have to wait, how long it takes to get where they're going and how many useful destinations it has. Until relatively recently there haven't been many places to go on SEPTA outside of the traditional 9-5 inbound/outbound scenario.
Well, I agree with what you wrote in the first paragraph, but to me that's just illustrating a few reasons why I would NOT say it was "the best of the best" (I could easily give several more, but trying not to go there!).

Re the 2nd & 3rd paragraphs: I guess still don't see why splitting hairs to get apples to apples comparisons is relevant. From what you're saying it sounds like you don't really think SEPTA is the best system either, so why bend over backwards to find a strange ways to support a strange conclusion? Like, do you agree with these guys saying that SEPTA is "a model for the rest of the public transit industry?", 'cause that kinda reads like an April Fools article to me!

Not saying SEPTA sucks, but I think they've got a ways to go.
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Old 07-28-2012, 01:20 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,314 posts, read 12,907,368 times
Reputation: 6162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Laughable , best system....hahahahah NJT is the best system in the US.
And that's even more laughable.
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
1,567 posts, read 3,100,739 times
Reputation: 1664
I'll say this for septa. It gets me pretty much wherever I need to go in a reasonably timely manner. My job takes me all over the more central parts of the city and I ride septa to avoid parking hassles. My job buys me a transpass. Some days, I'll take 5 or 6 trips using the el, subway, trolleys and buses. Very rarely are there any problems. Also, I rarely consult schedules. I'll just go to the nearest bus stop or station and wait. Invariably the wait is fairly short- just enough time to smoke a butt and check my email.

So, for a frequent rider who mostly stays within the expanded center city/univ city/south Philly areas during business hours, septa does a great job.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:05 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,380 posts, read 26,757,245 times
Reputation: 4580
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
And that's even more laughable.
At least were modernizing our system and haven't ripped half of it up....
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