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I will say that most people in the area seem to have a negative attitude towards Wilmington, though my personal experience with it has been literally limited to the Amtrak station (getting there and back didn't paint a super flattering picture of Wilmington as a city, however).
Bear in mind that when people say that they have a negative opinion about anything (cities, books, movies, ...) there's a better-than-even chance that they've never experienced the thing they're talking about (never been to the city, never read the book, maybe only saw the movie trailer, ...). So, if you hear "Wilmington sucks," the reasonable followup question/comment is "what makes you say that?" or something more inflammatory if that fits your mood.
I first got a taste of this when I was a student at Penn in the early 70's. Many of the other students would say "Philly reeks," "I can't wait to get out of this hell hole and get back to [usually, NYC]." These were almost always the kids who never saw a show at the Spectrum, never went for a run along the river, and so on. That is, they were campus-bound and never experienced the city ("in myopia, there's utopia").
So take the Wilmington, Newark, wherever comments with a grain of salt. Any short, glib reply (positive or negative) requires some follow up q & a.
Bear in mind that when people say that they have a negative opinion about anything (cities, books, movies, ...) there's a better-than-even chance that they've never experienced the thing they're talking about (never been to the city, never read the book, maybe only saw the movie trailer, ...). So, if you hear "Wilmington sucks," the reasonable followup question/comment is "what makes you say that?" or something more inflammatory if that fits your mood.
I first got a taste of this when I was a student at Penn in the early 70's. Many of the other students would say "Philly reeks," "I can't wait to get out of this hell hole and get back to [usually, NYC]." These were almost always the kids who never saw a show at the Spectrum, never went for a run along the river, and so on. That is, they were campus-bound and never experienced the city ("in myopia, there's utopia").
So take the Wilmington, Newark, wherever comments with a grain of salt. Any short, glib reply (positive or negative) requires some follow up q & a.
I thought the same thing when I read the title of this thread but the poster actually says that he/she has interned (and I'm assuming) lived in Newark for two summers. My immediate thought was he/she must not know Newark, because I think it's sort of similar to West Chester. Both are college towns with nice downtown areas.
I thought the same thing when I read the title of this thread but the poster actually says that he/she has interned (and I'm assuming) lived in Newark for two summers. My immediate thought was he/she must not know Newark, because I think it's sort of similar to West Chester. Both are college towns with nice downtown areas.
Newark is pretty tiny. Not that Main Street isn't nice--it is. The other interns and I had a couple of Home Grown lunches, we got drinks at Klondike Kates, walked around on weekends, etc. But there really aren't very many places that are going to feel like you're in town when you walk out your front door. It's pretty much campus, Main Street, then suburban neighborhoods with cookie cutter houses and those apartment complexes that look like a bunch of giant brick rectangles with giant parking lots. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not going to be living with a whole bunch of people in one of the houses that rents to students, I'm going to be living alone, and I'm having trouble finding studios and one bedrooms that are walkable to Main Street. West Chester to me feels like people actually live there, while Newark proper just doesn't feel that way to me. Maybe I'm going to all the wrong parts of Newark, or just the right parts of West Chester.
I actually didn't live in Newark, however--I lived in Kennett with my parents. Which is fine for two summers, but certainly not for anything even semi-permanent.
I'm glad you are being open minded about this Knitty. Newark is my husbands hometown and we lived outside of West Chester (4 years on the North side and 6 years on the South side) for ten years. We lived in cookie cutter houses both times. I'm sure you didn't mean to dis cookie cutter residents and my point is that those houses are also outside of West Chester.
I didn't mean to offend anyone at all! I'm just not in a cookie-cutter house stage in my life right now, but maybe someday I will be so lucky to have a down payment and a good enough credit score to buy one of those houses--and someone to do it with. Just not right now, and I'm just freaking out a teensy bit about where to live. I realize those houses are also outside West Chester, but West Chester the town is bigger and denser than Newark the town, at least in my experience.
I didn't mean to offend anyone at all! I'm just not in a cookie-cutter house stage in my life right now, but maybe someday I will be so lucky to have a down payment and a good enough credit score to buy one of those houses--and someone to do it with. Just not right now, and I'm just freaking out a teensy bit about where to live. I realize those houses are also outside West Chester, but West Chester the town is bigger and denser than Newark the town, at least in my experience.
Absolutely no offense taken. I have kids your age that would say the same thing. My daughter in fact recently chose to live in downtown Washington DC and avoid the suburbs. I was pointing out the similarities in the two towns. I really think they are more the same then different. I also think you will find Newark and even Trolley Square more affordable then WC. You might want to post on the DE forum for suggestions.
I'm an about-to-be new college grad who is starting her very first "grown-up" job in Newark, DE, this February. Delaware was a serious compromise on location for me--I interned there for two summers, and basically I'm taking a job that I love with a boss that I love on a team that I love in a location I am less than thrilled about (to say the least). Northern Delaware's strip mall and highway feel is really just not my cup of tea, and I've been searching for alternatives.
I've all but ruled out Philadelphia because of the commute, but if Google directions can be believed, it would be about 45 minutes from West Chester to Newark every day. I think I could handle this length (I commuted a half hour to work for the last two summers, so 45 minutes really isn't a huge stretch). Much more than that (or bad traffic, ugh) would be a big deterrent for me.
I've spent some time in West Chester visiting friends, and I like the small town vibe (I'm really more of a big city girl, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards right now). So, I have two questions: is it really 45 minutes from West Chester to Newark, DE, and are there any other small/medium sized towns I could look at that might give me a little shorter a commute?
I had to edit this post because I know how much I love West Chester and my original post came down on you for stereotyping New Castle County with its strip malls and highways.
The reality is that West Chester is a stellar town. Maybe one of my favorite.
There are also several other disappointing realities for you.
1. If you are "big city," There is no way you would want to live in a town without any passenger rail to your place of employment
2. Newark to Philadelphia (assuming you live in a nice neighborhood near 95) is 40 minutes with ZERO TRAFFIC LIGHTS.
Assuming snowstorm, car failure, license loss, injury, etc. If you can't drive, or can't drive your car..
Greyhound
SEPTA
AMTRAK
DART-SEPTA
Philly Carshare
Zipcar
3. Newark to West Chester is an hour with close to 30 TRAFFIC LIGHTS.
If you can't drive a car for a period of time, your mass transit options are 4 hours and 24 minutes on buses, maybe 2.5 hours down Rt. 3 to 69th Street taking the El to 30th street and the Wilmington line to Newark. As crazy as it seems, West Chester doesn't have train service to Wilmington or Philadelphia. Crime of the century.
If your car broke down, your only true option is retail car rental.
4. West Chester vs. a nice neighborhood in South Philadelphia near 95 is still probably more expensive than South Philadelphia. West Chester is not cheap.
These are your local options. I sense that you're a little intimidated of Wilmington and Philadelphia.
I find that many people who move to West Chester do so because it's safe. I've been told that Wilmington and Philadelphia were as entirely safe, beautiful and charming as West Chester before they went downhill.
West Chester: one of my favorite towns in the world, but impractical versus Philadelphia.
Newark: Nice main street, but no soul, no neighborhoods. Kiddie town.
Wilmington: If you knew the neighborhoods you would be a fool not to. Downtown was ruined by riots. the soul of the city is on the west side of town along Little Italy, Forty Acres, etc. Downtown might as well be a suburban office park after 1975. Parks, Parkways, grocery, gay, straight, festivals, centrality, access to Philadelphia. Proximity to Newark.
Philadelphia: Better choice than West Chester, major infrastructure benefits, large city amenities. This is your real pick based on what you asked for in your OP.
Media: Similar to West Chester, bit more family oriented, better commute (expressways to Newark,) infrastructure (bus to Wilmington SEPTA line.) Charming like West Chester. Less juvenile.
Manayunk: town gobbled up by NW Philadelphia, Hour fifteen minutes to Newark, but, again, expressways, and major infrastructure of buses and trains to get you to work if there's a problem. Big party town for suburban PA, NJ, DE kids who need to be sheltered from the actual city of Philadelphia but enjoy having the address (pun.)
Phoenixville: Smaller version of West Chester, but even farther, and less practical.
Collingswood, NJ: More family oriented, 45 minutes to Newark, Interstate 295S, $80/mo in tolls. Patco to Wilmington Line at Market East
Doylestown: West Chester North - ridiculously far but like West Chester. This is not an option, just a nice town you should know about in Phila. Metro.
Last edited by Road_Warrior; 09-15-2012 at 11:56 AM..
Hi Knitty,
I'm about 10 years older than you, but I think I understand where you're coming from. I grew up in N. Wilmington, lived in Baltimore for college, now live outside of Newark but am looking to move to Philly because that's where my friends are, I'm involved in the music scene there, and I feel like I've taken the whole 'childless in the suburbs' thing as far as it can go.
1) You're absolutely right to discount living in Newark, don't apologize for that. That's not to say Newark isn't a lovely place that is right for a lot of people - namely students and people with families - but you're right, it's not the place to be when you're a city girl at heart. Just too small of a place. I do think the overall vibe has a lot in common with West Chester, but the difference in size between the two towns really does make a difference.
2) You might be happy in Trolley Square. At the very least, it's not that far from Newark, and not that far from West Chester. It is a little bit expensive there, but probably no more so than West Chester. I would spend a little time there. Cons are there's still a little of a "bro" vibe there, by which I mean you'll see more ex-frat types than hipster types, but there's more of a diversity there than in other parts of Delaware. You'll see this on the weekends in some of the area bars like Logan House and Catherine Rooney's. Pros are the Delaware Horticulture Center is right there (beautiful little enclave where you can go enjoy the garden), there's a nice little mother-daughter run fresh/local/healthy foods cafe called Fresh Thymes, there's an ACME right there and probably walking distance to where you'd live, though that particular one is among the more expensive chain grocery stores in the county. Brandywine Park is a couple of blocks to the north, with nice walking trails that go by the local zoo (don't be there after dark, but that goes for most city parks in the country). There are several nice restaurants, like Piccolina Toscana, a tequila bar, a "speakeasy" that focuses on vintage cocktails. While most of the live music around there is cover bands, there are occasionally original music shows at Logan House. And it's not far from downtown.
3) Claims of downtown Wilmington being "dead" are greatly exxagerated. First of all, those "riots" that ruined downtown? Happened in the 1960s. True, it's not the most vibrant downtown area, but a lot has happened since then. There is an arthouse / indie movie theatre next to the Hotel DuPont called Theatre N. Theatre N at Nemours in Wilmington, DE / Theatre N There has been a huge revitalization of lower Market street, centered around the World Cafe Live at the Queen Theatre (a gorgeous, renovated old building that was once a nice movie theatre). There is an Indian restaurant and a pizza place nearby that host live original bands. There is an art gallery (The Chris White gallery) downtown that hosts original music. There is an art school (Delaware College of Art & Design), and students from that school are having a lot to do with the revitalization of downtown. There is a monthly First Friday art loop. There is a farmer's market downtown. Incidentally, there's also a farmers market in Trolley Square, and a couple of farmers markets at spots in between Trolley and downtown. In other words, it will never be Philly, but there's been a huge push in the past decade to make Wilmington a nice place to hang out at night, and it's working. There's a group called Downtown Visions that patrols the streets, making it safer than it was 10 years ago. There's a beautiful riverfront area.
I have more to say, but I have to run up to Philly for a gig. If I don't remember to check back in here, good luck!
When I lived in West Chester, I worked at the MBNA buildings in Wilmington for a while. The traffic was HORRIFIC no matter what way I took, and I tried many. About 1 hour and 20 minutes in rush hour traffic. The worst. I quit that job based on that one quality of life issue. Three hours commuting was unacceptable to me.
The commute from downtown West Chester to Newark will be 45 min at least. Traffic and traffic lights galore, or windy country roads where you can only drive so fast. The commute from old city or south Philly (somewhere right off 95) will be about the same... Except rarely any traffic and no lights. I did the commute from Center city to near Newark for 4 years and I found it totally bearable. Given the lifestyle you are looking for, I would say its well worth the extra few minutes in the car (just get satellite radio). Sign a one year lease and if you find the commute unbearable you can always move to Trolley Square.
As for the suggestion of Elkton Maryland, well that's just insane ... it's not remotely what your looking for.
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