Ya still think the NJ burbs have higher taxes then pa? (Philadelphia: crime, buying a home)

[RightonWalnut]

We get it Frank. You love New Jersey and where we live is garbage.

[athensvaasi]

Did this study/map take into consideration that higher property taxes are likely paid all life, and will be quite tough as one ages?

I am not too good at understanding maps like this, but I am thinking not.

[pman]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

It's a mixed bag on both sides of the river. That's the point.

People on here say "oh, you don't want to move to South Jersey the taxes are much higher" like it's gospel - and it's just not true and never has been.

it was true, but some PA burbs have raised taxes significantly in recent years. I find it odd that the low tax places don't have their information listed, not every PA burbs is overtaxed like delco and cheltenham. the link also undermines frank's claim, it's cheaper to live in philly than jersey. of course, if you're looking at property tax as a percent of property value, that's a little different than income. if you're on a fixed income, you can find a house in philly with taxes of $1200 per year, ride the bus for free, and pay nothing close to the $5897 it says you'd pay on the graph. its always complicated, but the graph excludes places with low taxes like abington.

[frankgn87]

And this chart don't even take into account the 4% city wage tax. So you and your spouse make $150k and you are paying another $6k a year ..

[frankgn87]

Originally Posted by BPP1999

I'm having a hard time with this as well. Our South Jersey clients are paying property taxes that are generally considerably higher than clients living in PA in the bigger homes. I'm not talking about comparing Haddonfield or Cherry Hill to Upper Hanover Township (which is fairly rural) in Montgomery County. I'm comparing apples to apples here.

Apples to apples for me.. My co worker in Rydal pa is paying $7000 a year for his prop taxes on a 3 bed 2 bath rancher on a 1/3 acre and we are paying $6300 for a 4 bed 3 bath split with 1/3 acre in South Jersey.

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

The best thing to do would be to assess each municipality on the basis of its own median household income/median owner-occupied home value.

Your tax burden (as done in this report - which, btw, if you can't understand the map you can also read the report) can be translated as a percentage of income or as a dollar amount based on a specific income.

If you changed the standard home value from $200k to $300k that wouldn't change the mil rate. A town with high property taxes would still have high property taxes regardless of how much the house cost. Mil rates are not progressive.

If you changed the standard income from $60k to $100k it would change the income tax comparison because NJ has a progressive income tax structure . . . but NJ also has the homestead rebate and allows for a lot of exemptions and deductions that don't exist in PA so that unless you're in the top 1% of income earners it's not going to make a major difference in terms of your overall tax burden.

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by frankgn87

And this chart don't even take into account the 4% city wage tax. So you and your spouse make $150k and you are paying another $6k a year ..

It actually does take that into account. You can click the tab at the top to indicate whether you work in Philadelphia or not.

[frankgn87]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

It actually does take that into account. You can click the tab at the top to indicate whether you work in Philadelphia or not.

Im not sure if that works like that. When I select IN Philly I get a smaller saving being in Jersey then if I choose IN Philly. It would be the other way around if that what that selection does. Abns the local tax burden does not change for Philly whether I choose IN or OUT of Philly.

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by frankgn87

Im not sure if that works like that. When I select IN Philly I get a smaller saving being in Jersey then if I choose IN Philly. It would be the other way around if that what that selection does. Abns the local tax burden does not change for Philly whether I choose IN or OUT of Philly.

You typed the same thing twice so I'm not sure what you mean but it works like this -

If you live in Cinnaminson and work in Philly - average tax burden $7647

If you live there and don't work in Philly - $6433

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by drive carephilly

Your tax burden (as done in this report - which, btw, if you can't understand the map you can also read the report) can be translated as a percentage of income or as a dollar amount based on a specific income.

If you changed the standard home value from $200k to $300k that wouldn't change the mil rate. A town with high property taxes would still have high property taxes regardless of how much the house cost. Mil rates are not progressive.

If you changed the standard income from $60k to $100k it would change the income tax comparison because NJ has a progressive income tax structure . . . but NJ also has the homestead rebate and allows for a lot of exemptions and deductions that don't exist in PA so that unless you're in the top 1% of income earners it's not going to make a major difference in terms of your overall tax burden.

I know that millage rates are not progressive. But different municipalities have different housing stock at different prices. Also note that a home's fair market value and tax assessment can be two very different things. Although a lot of PA municipalities have started to close the millage rate gap, assessments on the PA side of the river are often way out of date. Haverford Township's 3.768% millage rate is rather steep, but a lot of homes are assessed at less than half their current value. A Havertown colonial worth $300k but assessed at $140k is really paying a little over 1.5% (~$4,500). A Woodcrest split worth the same price but assessed at 180k with a 5.45% millage rate is effectively paying a little over 3% (~$9,000).

I read the methodology report, and once again, they use a static assessment-to-fair-market-value ratio in each County. That's not a good set metric either. In neighboring Voorhees, for instance, a lot of homes are assessed very close to (and sometimes over) market value. A home in Lost Tree worth $525k and assessed at $600k with a 2.60% millage rate is also ultimately paying a little over 3%, but the map won't take those differing assessments into account, and will over/under estimate accordingly.

Really, the more I think about this, the less the map works as a user-specific tool.

I'd also like to see a source on the bolded.