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Old 09-16-2015, 11:07 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
Your latter statement was actually my point without me saying it so well. Of course if I mention Ardmore is just a ghost of a place every single week day, it will bring out the "the Ardmore shopping district is fine" people.
No, people, it's not fine. It's neglected, has empty store fronts on Lancaster Ave. and Suburban Sq is dull and has no energy. It's heart breaking....to me anyhow. Suburban Sq was one of places that made the Main Line special.
I don't know about you, but for me watching Society Hill & Queen Village come back to life in a time when other cities had the attitude of "out with the old & in with the new" was special. I've watched rehabbing in cities in Europe, too. I'm hoping that in a couple of years I can move back to the Delaware Valley because I really miss that.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 09-16-2015 at 04:17 PM..
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Old 09-16-2015, 01:29 PM
 
10,787 posts, read 8,749,363 times
Reputation: 3983
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
I don't know about you, but for me watching Society Hill & Queen Village come back to life in a time when other cities had the attitude of "out with the old & in with the new" was special. I've watched rehabbing in cities in Europe, too. I'm hoping that in a couple of years I can move back to the Delaware Valley because I really miss that.
I don't quite remember when Society Hill was not so great. But I do remember when Society Hill Towers were built and when things were certainly changing in that area from the early 70s on. What a success story!
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Old 09-16-2015, 02:55 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
I don't quite remember when Society Hill was not so great. But I do remember when Society Hill Towers were built and when things were certainly changing in that area from the early 70s on. What a success story!
I went to college at Broad & Pine from 69 to 73. They were still working on Society Hill & moving on down into Queen Village. When I had photography class a lot of us would scout out buildings being rehabbed to photograph, if the assignment allowed for that. The construction guys thought that we were nuts.
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Old 09-16-2015, 05:43 PM
 
10,787 posts, read 8,749,363 times
Reputation: 3983
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
I went to college at Broad & Pine from 69 to 73. They were still working on Society Hill & moving on down into Queen Village. When I had photography class a lot of us would scout out buildings being rehabbed to photograph, if the assignment allowed for that. The construction guys thought that we were nuts.
Interestingly I was at Peirce Jr College(now Peirce College) from '69-'70. Part of my checkered college career.
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Old 09-16-2015, 05:52 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
Interestingly I was at Peirce Jr College(now Peirce College) from '69-'70. Part of my checkered college career.
Cool! I instantly recognized Peirce in the 6th Sense. I think that some of the shots of the school were from the upper floor of PCA (now University of the Arts).
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Old 09-17-2015, 04:44 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,147 posts, read 9,038,713 times
Reputation: 10491
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
I know kyb01 will yell at me, but I am amazed at how KoP can support yet another "17 building" town center across the street from the current mall.

REI, Ulta Beauty, Nordstrom Rack, Fogo de Chao and Honeygrow among others are signed on already. It is supposed to resemble a Philadelphia street.

Honeygrow, REI and Others Inked for "Lifestyle" Shopping Center in King of Prussia - Property

At least now we have 2 Fogos.
Well, given the tenant mix, it does resemble a Philadelphia street - or collection of streets: namely, "Rittenhouse Row" and the adjacent streets, on which we can find all of the stores listed above. (Fogo de Chao is east of Broad on Chestnut; the rest can be found in the vicinity of 17th Street on either Walnut or Chestnut, or on 17th itself in Honeygrow's case.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by asiandudeyo View Post
Why all the hates? It is true it does not look like Center City street.
But, I think it looks clean, modern and walkable. Like kby01 says, it looks like Suburban Sq. and I love Suburban Sq.
While this does not resemble Rittenhouse Row, I can see some parts of Philadephia outside Center City that can be re-gutted and have something similar to this - just like Suburban Sq. Particularly North and NE Philly.
The problem with this development is: It's still something you have to drive to - there's no other uses within walking distance.

There are homes and apartments across the street from Suburban Square.

(Kansas City's Country Club Plaza, the pioneer of the model, is surrounded by apartment buildings, including an array of high rises just to its south.)

What makes city shopping streets work is the presence of residents on or adjacent to them.

All of the "adjacent" developments mentioned in the article cannot be reached easily on foot from this one.

Until that issue gets fixed, anything in KoP will be a pale imitation of what it seeks to emulate.
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:31 AM
 
Location: NYC based - Used to Live in Philly - Transplant from Miami
2,307 posts, read 2,766,054 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
Well, given the tenant mix, it does resemble a Philadelphia street - or collection of streets: namely, "Rittenhouse Row" and the adjacent streets, on which we can find all of the stores listed above. (Fogo de Chao is east of Broad on Chestnut; the rest can be found in the vicinity of 17th Street on either Walnut or Chestnut, or on 17th itself in Honeygrow's case.)



The problem with this development is: It's still something you have to drive to - there's no other uses within walking distance.

There are homes and apartments across the street from Suburban Square.

(Kansas City's Country Club Plaza, the pioneer of the model, is surrounded by apartment buildings, including an array of high rises just to its south.)

What makes city shopping streets work is the presence of residents on or adjacent to them.

All of the "adjacent" developments mentioned in the article cannot be reached easily on foot from this one.

Until that issue gets fixed, anything in KoP will be a pale imitation of what it seeks to emulate.
That's a very good point!
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:50 AM
 
1,524 posts, read 1,181,563 times
Reputation: 3194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
The problem with this development is: It's still something you have to drive to - there's no other uses within walking distance.

There are homes and apartments across the street from Suburban Square.

(Kansas City's Country Club Plaza, the pioneer of the model, is surrounded by apartment buildings, including an array of high rises just to its south.)

What makes city shopping streets work is the presence of residents on or adjacent to them.

All of the "adjacent" developments mentioned in the article cannot be reached easily on foot from this one.

Until that issue gets fixed, anything in KoP will be a pale imitation of what it seeks to emulate.
Thank you!! This is my exact beef with all of these "town centers," even the ones that propose to have mixed use--both residential and retail. It's still a DEVELOPMENT with only one or two entrances and exits that require a car.

Many many years ago, when Main Street Exton was being proposed, Main Line Today did a cover story about it. In that story, a woman who owned a flower shop across Route 100 said that she was looking forward to the increased foot traffic for her business. I wrote a rather lengthy Letter to the Editor that got printed in its entirety basically telling her to keep dreaming because you would still have to drive to Main Street Exton, park, and then walk around. No one would be walking from Main Street Exton to other stores along 30 or 100. And I was right. Same for Uptown Worthington in Malvern. It's nowhere near "downtown" Malvern! I really do hate these places. Smart growth, I believe they call it. I just call it more suburban sprawl.

Sorry for the rant.
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
7,268 posts, read 10,585,214 times
Reputation: 8823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers Girl View Post
Many many years ago, when Main Street Exton was being proposed, Main Line Today did a cover story about it. In that story, a woman who owned a flower shop across Route 100 said that she was looking forward to the increased foot traffic for her business. I wrote a rather lengthy Letter to the Editor that got printed in its entirety basically telling her to keep dreaming because you would still have to drive to Main Street Exton, park, and then walk around. No one would be walking from Main Street Exton to other stores along 30 or 100. And I was right. Same for Uptown Worthington in Malvern. It's nowhere near "downtown" Malvern! I really do hate these places. Smart growth, I believe they call it. I just call it more suburban sprawl.
You're absolutely right that these "town center" type developments are still a far cry from smart growth, as they are indeed still primarily targeting automobile traffic.

While it's far from a perfect way to create new development, and I am a staunch proponent of smartly designed and sustainable mixed-use development, I still look at these areas as at least the next step towards embracing something truly more walkable and mixed-use. I think more ambitious proposals will happen in due time.

A large part of the issue in the suburbs is that when you propose something truly dense and mixed-use, the very vocal NIMBY contingent in many areas will decry increased traffic, impact on schools, etc. Little do they know that they are aiding and abetting more of the sprawl that they will detest even more.

More people need to be convinced that density and mixed-use development are not four-letter words. Growth is going to continue to occur, and people who are truly interested in protecting open space and preventing more widespread traffic need to embrace denser and truly walkable models of development.
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Old 09-18-2015, 11:33 AM
 
Location: New York City
9,377 posts, read 9,319,932 times
Reputation: 6484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers Girl View Post
Thank you!! This is my exact beef with all of these "town centers," even the ones that propose to have mixed use--both residential and retail. It's still a DEVELOPMENT with only one or two entrances and exits that require a car.

Many many years ago, when Main Street Exton was being proposed, Main Line Today did a cover story about it. In that story, a woman who owned a flower shop across Route 100 said that she was looking forward to the increased foot traffic for her business. I wrote a rather lengthy Letter to the Editor that got printed in its entirety basically telling her to keep dreaming because you would still have to drive to Main Street Exton, park, and then walk around. No one would be walking from Main Street Exton to other stores along 30 or 100. And I was right. Same for Uptown Worthington in Malvern. It's nowhere near "downtown" Malvern! I really do hate these places. Smart growth, I believe they call it. I just call it more suburban sprawl.

Sorry for the rant.
At least modern town centers promote walk-ability and utilization of the entire landscape rather than in the 1960s and 1970s when tacky strip malls ruled the land. None of them actually emulate a Main Street, but I don't think they are all terrible.
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