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Old 05-02-2013, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Center City
7,528 posts, read 10,252,012 times
Reputation: 11023

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011 View Post
Again not saying a bloomingdales is coming to the gallery. I have no idea what department store will end up there. All i know is that it makes ZERO sense that PREIT would make such a hefty investement if all they were planning to do was basically run a marginally better version of the gallery that included a target.
So help me out you long term Philadelphians. I have trouble seeing the Gallery attract any prestigious department stores such as Bloomies, Nordstroms or Neiman's. My reasoning is based on demographics. To the south, you have a mix of affluence and students crammed into refurbished trinities. To the north, you have poverty being gentrified by hipsters. To the east, you have the tourists. I just don't see enough potential customers in Society Hill and Rittenhouse to support such high-end retail. All the moneyed folks from Chestnut Hill and the Main Line are not going to trundle into Center City and brush shoulders with the masses when they have their own pristine enclave at KoP. And tourists to Philly are not like tourists to NY - they do not come here to shop, but arrive children in tow to expose them to US history.

Given the location, I do see a polished Target as a really viable tenant. I know I would personally spend money there while likely spending little if any at any high-end department stores. I also see tenants such as Crate & Barrel, Container Store and Design Within Reach making a go of it. I would also add some destination restaurants to attract the tourists.

So those who have lived here all or most of your lives: Help me understand your take on whether a refurbished Gallery can support high-end retail.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:03 AM
 
Location: back in Philadelphia!
3,264 posts, read 5,650,325 times
Reputation: 2146
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm02 View Post
So help me out you long term Philadelphians. I have trouble seeing the Gallery attract any prestigious department stores such as Bloomies, Nordstroms or Neiman's. My reasoning is based on demographics. To the south, you have a mix of affluence and students crammed into refurbished trinities. To the north, you have poverty being gentrified by hipsters. To the east, you have the tourists. I just don't see enough potential customers in Society Hill and Rittenhouse to support such high-end retail. All the moneyed folks from Chestnut Hill and the Main Line are not going to trundle into Center City and brush shoulders with the masses when they have their own pristine enclave at KoP. And tourists to Philly are not like tourists to NY - they do not come here to shop, but arrive children in tow to expose them to US history.

Given the location, I do see a polished Target as a really viable tenant. I know I would personally spend money there while likely spending little if any at any high-end department stores. I also see tenants such as Crate & Barrel, Container Store and Design Within Reach making a go of it. I would also add some destination restaurants to attract the tourists.

So those who have lived here all or most of your lives: Help me understand your take on whether a refurbished Gallery can support high-end retail.
One thing you left out of your analysis is the convention center. (Whether I like or or not) The city has put a lot of eggs in that basket lately, and I think a prime function of a refurbished Gallery (or whatever it will be called) would be to serve as a destination for convention/hotel spillover commerce. I think potentially that's its anchor.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:05 AM
 
48 posts, read 66,057 times
Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm02 View Post
So help me out you long term Philadelphians. I have trouble seeing the Gallery attract any prestigious department stores such as Bloomies, Nordstroms or Neiman's. My reasoning is based on demographics. To the south, you have a mix of affluence and students crammed into refurbished trinities. To the north, you have poverty being gentrified by hipsters. To the east, you have the tourists. I just don't see enough potential customers in Society Hill and Rittenhouse to support such high-end retail. All the moneyed folks from Chestnut Hill and the Main Line are not going to trundle into Center City and brush shoulders with the masses when they have their own pristine enclave at KoP. And tourists to Philly are not like tourists to NY - they do not come here to shop, but arrive children in tow to expose them to US history.

Given the location, I do see a polished Target as a really viable tenant. I know I would personally spend money there while likely spending little if any at any high-end department stores. I also see tenants such as Crate & Barrel, Container Store and Design Within Reach making a go of it. I would also add some destination restaurants to attract the tourists.

So those who have lived here all or most of your lives: Help me understand your take on whether a refurbished Gallery can support high-end retail.
I see your point, I think the general thinking is that the traditional tourist to Philly (i.e. round up the kids at let's go check out the Liberty Bell) is evolving. Philly has invested a lot of money recently marketing the city in NYC especially, in an attempt to get the weeklong visitors to NYC to make a day trip to Philly. If the city is indeed making headway in getting these types of tourists into the city, then they would be the types that would be interested in high-end retail shopping.

The question that remains is whether or not Philly is importing enough of these types of tourists to currently support high-end retail in the Gallery. I think the Gallery is currently on an upwards trend (if PREIT really follows thru, and one would think they will given their substantial investment) and I have high hopes for what the Gallery can become.
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Old 05-02-2013, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Center City
7,528 posts, read 10,252,012 times
Reputation: 11023
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome View Post
One thing you left out of your analysis is the convention center. (Whether I like or or not) The city has put a lot of eggs in that basket lately, and I think a prime function of a refurbished Gallery (or whatever it will be called) would be to serve as a destination for convention/hotel spillover commerce. I think potentially that's its anchor.
I can see that. Still, I don't see lots of conventioneers shopping at Bloomie's. It may just be my own bias, because I'm not really a shopper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Go Philadelphia View Post
I see your point, I think the general thinking is that the traditional tourist to Philly (i.e. round up the kids at let's go check out the Liberty Bell) is evolving. Philly has invested a lot of money recently marketing the city in NYC especially, in an attempt to get the weeklong visitors to NYC to make a day trip to Philly. If the city is indeed making headway in getting these types of tourists into the city, then they would be the types that would be interested in high-end retail shopping.
I think this is fantastic. But I don't see Philly as being able to compete with 5th Avenue on a day trip south. I see a Liberty Bell/Betsy Ross outing.

Everyone - Don't take my comments as being down on the Gallery's potential. I would love to see it become more than it is, and I'm honestly encouraged by what I'm reading about PREIT. I'm just trying to understand long time resident's thinking about what might constitute viable retail should we see a true upscaling of this shopping mall. Thank for your posts so far.

Last edited by Pine to Vine; 05-02-2013 at 10:26 AM..
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:10 PM
 
Location: a swanky suburb in my fancy pants
3,391 posts, read 8,776,939 times
Reputation: 1624
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm02 View Post
I can see that. Still, I don't see lots of conventioneers shopping at Bloomie's. It may just be my own bias, because I'm not really a shopper.

I think this is fantastic. But I don't see Philly as being able to compete with 5th Avenue on a day trip south. I see a Liberty Bell/Betsy Ross outing.

Everyone - Don't take my comments as being down on the Gallery's potential. I would love to see it become more than it is, and I'm honestly encouraged by what I'm reading about PREIT. I'm just trying to understand long time resident's thinking about what might constitute viable retail should we see a true upscaling of this shopping mall. Thank for your posts so far.
From a long time Philadelphian......
You could be very perceptive to figure this out so quickly. On the other hand one doesn’t have to be all that intuitive to realize that in the real world, Bloomingdale’s wouldn’t touch the Gallery with a 10 foot pole but they won’t know for sure until they have had a good look. You may have also realized that a few of our posters here don’t quite operate in the real world.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Wayne, PA
197 posts, read 279,989 times
Reputation: 34
What about a more meat and potatoes bowling alley in this part of the city? Instead of Lucky Strike?
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:55 PM
 
421 posts, read 834,348 times
Reputation: 66
Let's return the focus of this thread to officially proposed or confirmed retail developments rather than hypothetical wish lists.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,700 posts, read 14,688,712 times
Reputation: 3668
JM02. You have to think of it this way.

1. The Gallery is not Fifth Avenue... Walnut is Philadelphia's Fifth Avenue.

2. Market East will not be Fifth Avenue, the plan is to make it more Times Square-esk.

Market East already has a anchor tenant... Macy's. If you look at Market East, it's really not as bad as people make it out to be. You have the Gallery that needs to be redone, and then the South side of Market from 7th to 13th. PREIT has some great plans for the Gallery, and anyone who is looking at it at the way it is now, and can't see the potential in the future, well that's why you're not involved in Real Estate, and that's why you weren't a successful agent (you know who you are). You can't look at things in the present. You have to look at it's potential in the future. There is a good chance PREIT already signed some tenants, and they were using those tenants they signed as a lure for Bloomingdale's. PREIT also probably said, 'hey, you saw what we did with Cherry Hill, you see how we turned that around, and you turned us down then, are you going to take a chance on us now?' The Gallery has extreme potential. Not only is it one of the last bastions of Center City that needs a remodeling, but it is smack dab between Old City, Independence Mall, the Convention Center, Loews Hotel, etc. etc. The Gallery also has two pads on top of it that can hold an office/hotel/residential building

The Gallery is going to be hot in a few years. Market East is going to be hot in a few years.

PREIT also probably flashed these renders around:


You can't look at the now, you have to look at the future potential.

If Bloomie's and their lawyers and design team have been there 4 times, they're obviously serious about getting into the Center City market. Between this, and talks with Post Brothers for space in the Atlantic Building, I'd say they're definitely shopping around. I'm still willing to bet they end up in the Atlantic Building, but I'm not going to say them ending up in the Gallery, on the end closest to Macy's and the Convention Center, is too farfetched.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,700 posts, read 14,688,712 times
Reputation: 3668
Quote:
Originally Posted by wardwhirlboromarlpool1955 View Post
Let's return the focus of this thread to officially proposed or confirmed retail developments rather than hypothetical wish lists.
This is not a wish list. This may pan out to be legitimate. Bloomie's has been shopping around for a couple months now. It's pretty obvious they're looking for space.
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Old 05-02-2013, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,700 posts, read 14,688,712 times
Reputation: 3668
In good news! Finally! Uniqlo has announced they are coming to Philadelphia!


Quote:
After much speculation, it's official: Uniqlo has its sights set on Philadelphia. WWD reports that the Japanese clothing chain, which already operates seven stores nationwide, has plans to open 20 or more U.S. stores in 2014. "We have a vision of multiple hundreds of stores in the U.S.," says Uniqlo CFO Larry Meyer.
The fast fashion brand will first concentrate on beefing up its presence in New York and San Francisco, where Uniqlo stores already exist; then, it will move on to Boston and Philadelphia. But the question remains: Where will the fast fashion brand take up residence in our area?
I'm willing to bet they end up in the new retail development at 15th & Walnut

Confirmed: Uniqlo is Coming to Philadelphia—But Where? - Intelligence - Racked Philly
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