Retail coming to Philadelphia (salon, hotels, club)

[FindingZen]

This thread has adopted an unnecessarily tense tone in some recent posts. Participating in a civil discussion will maximize thread life and minimize infractions.

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

Edmund Bacon, Bart Blatstein, Eric Blumenfeld and UPenn all have done similar things in the redevelopment of Philadelphia, which is why I used them as examples. UPenn is not a developer either.

Edmund Bacon redeveloped Market East, Society Hill, Penn Center, Penn's Landing, Independence Mall and several other areas. Penn singlehandedly redeveloped University City and surrounding areas, and Blatstein Northern Liberties. Blumenfeld is redeveloping North Broad.

Penn is absolutely a real estate developer (among many other things)! They had Tom Lussenhop on staff, even.

I know why you used them as examples. But Ed Bacon was a (great) planner, who worked in the public sector, and whose ideas were often misimplemented by developers. The Gallery = case in point.

[asiandudeyo]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

I think the building is a beautiful design

I agree with Summer. The building is beautiful, and I am not an architect either.
One should be able to appreciate both the old and new architectural designs.

[2e1m5a]

Originally Posted by rotodome

To be fair, Ed Bacon (a planner, not a developer) was the brains behind the Gallery as well as Society Hill. And Independence Mall too. A mixed track record to be sure (not all his fault of course).

Mmh, so he was the planner for The Gallery (meh), Penn's Landing (meh) and he wanted to tear down City Hall. Mixed track record for sure.

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by asiandudeyo

I agree with Summer. The building is beautiful, and I am not an architect either.
One should be able to appreciate both the old and new architectural designs.

Yes. And we have to remember that all "old" stuff was "new" stuff when it was built. And a lot of people hated it when it was new, but grew to appreciate it much later. Case in point: City Hall!

[Debbie1125]

Originally Posted by asiandudeyo

I agree with Summer. The building is beautiful, and I am not an architect either.
One should be able to appreciate both the old and new architectural designs.

I like a mixture of old and new also....but I just think that particular building is ugly.

As far as the Gallery, I say it will take at least 10 years for it to show improvement. The place has a terrible image. I was there two weeks ago and there wasn't one store in there that appealed to me. The Gallery went downhill, in my opinion, when J.C. Penney left. It really is a shame because when it first opened, it was a great place to shop.

[Cnote11]

The Gallery does not appeal to me either, although I usually stop in at the K-Mart once a month for some type of household thing e.g. humidifier, dish soap, etc. Everything else in there though I can easily leave it, although 5 Below has Arnold Palmers and I like those from time to time. Something you can get everywhere, though.

Either way, sorry to hear that you're in such bad health, Debbie.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

The glass box isn't particularly awful in my opinion - there has surely been worse, and the urbanism seems okay from the rendering. But in my opinion it's still just a glass box. Even if people are excited about it today, I don't know that it has any lasting value or charm. Which is fine - not every building should be a monument unto itself. I think the praise for it, more specifically from Inga in the inquirer, is a little overboard.

The Gallery can surely be better than it is. But one thing people should remember is that it is useful as a transit mall. Thousands of people per day come through the mall on the Market Frankford Line, Regional Rail lines, Broad Ridge Spur, and NJ Transit and SEPTA buses. And yeah, there's a kmart there - a kmart I've stopped at many mornings after I get off the train.

Just like one of the first things you see after exiting Penn Station is a Kmart. And a lot of crap. As well as a lot of nice stuff.

Not to say there aren't a plethora of problems with the Gallery, in design, clientele, the surrounding area, and so on. But it's good to keep things in perspective sometimes.

[avg12]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

PREIT overtook Cherry Hill Mall in 2006? I think? Before that, it was nothing really special and sort of dumpy. Well, do I need to say more? You know where Cherry Hill Mall is today. Soo, that's 7 years? I'll give them 7 years to turn around the Gallery. If you plan on dying within that time frame then yeah I guess you're right.

It was 2003 that PREIT purchased it and five other area malls from the Rouse Co. PREIT also owns the Cumberland Mall in Vineland, NJ but that wasn't part of that purchase.

CH Mall wasn't dumpy back in 2005, atleast not between the macy's and the old food court. It has been one of the high performing malls in the region after King of Prussia for years, and one of the key malls and reasons PREIT bought six area malls from the Rouse Co.

The dumpy side was limited between the foodcourt and JCPenney, and it really was still ok, just not as nice.

The most underperforming mall in the mix was the Echelon Mall, while the CH Mall was the arguably best one in the mix, but PREIT knew that it got a bundled deal with some duds. Moorestown, Plymouth Meeting, Exton and Gallery were bundled together in the sale. Plymouth Meeting and Exton were suburban B malls, in the shadow and relative close proximity of King of Prussia. Co-owning Moorestown prevented it from out-shining CH, but Rouse Co. had acquired Moorestown some years earlier.

The Gallery sits in a great location but would require much investment to make it worth more, plus PREIT didn't control all of it.

[avg12]

Originally Posted by Debbie1125

I like a mixture of old and new also....but I just think that particular building is ugly.

As far as the Gallery, I say it will take at least 10 years for it to show improvement. The place has a terrible image. I was there two weeks ago and there wasn't one store in there that appealed to me. The Gallery went downhill, in my opinion, when J.C. Penney left. It really is a shame because when it first opened, it was a great place to shop.

I always thought JCPenney should have returned to the mall at the 8th&Market site when Strawbridge's closed. It would have been an upgrade for them than the position it left years ago, as the 8th&Market site sits above PATCO.

Atleast when Strawbridge's closed and Macy's opened at 1300 Market, and during the late 2000s, JCPenney was in good shape financially to have done that.

I don't think the JCPenney in the Franklin Mills Mall counts as servicing Philly again.

However, JCPenney went downhill in the last couple years. Recently their new TV ads are embracing the fully spelled JCPenney rather than that ugly jcp logo, and they want customers to come back. Their website still shows the jcp crappy logo though and gives an image that the store is like kmart.

The aisle widening and reduction of store inventory made many of the JCPenney stores look like Sears with a little makeup, so I don't know how they will reverse that mistake easily.

Either way, hopefully JCPenney will rebound, and maybe they'd return into Center City. They did go into Manhattan not too long ago.

Another good mid level store, but maybe less likely for the Gallery is Kohl's. Kohl's is in Jersey City, which isn't as urban as Philly but atleast half way or more than usual.