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Old 01-28-2024, 02:38 PM
 
Location: New York City
9,380 posts, read 9,349,798 times
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^ A circumstance when New York's proximity may benefit Philadelphia (at least Center City). All the apartments going up 5 mins from 30th Street Station make the move for NY's even more attractive if one only has to be in NYC once a week (or less in some cases).
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Old 01-29-2024, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
7,271 posts, read 10,607,615 times
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Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
^ A circumstance when New York's proximity may benefit Philadelphia (at least Center City). All the apartments going up 5 mins from 30th Street Station make the move for NY's even more attractive if one only has to be in NYC once a week (or less in some cases).
Exactly. Philadelphia is definitely gaining more traction than ever as the best value large East Coast hub; the city would be very smart and strategic to continue to beat that drum in an era of record-breaking levels of housing unaffordability that is likely to remain the case for years, especially to remote workers in the NYC and DC regions.

I've already noted this before, but Philly is remaining remarkably resilient economically in the midst of a slowing global economy.

Preliminary report from BLS as of December is showing seasonally-adjusted growth of 22,800 jobs year-over-year for the city alone. That means record employment (or at least, the highest since many decades ago) in Philadelphia right now. The buying power is absolutely here; retailers just need to be more aggressively courted and reassured that they will be secure from "quality-of-life" challenges.

And according to BLS data, Greater Philadelphia ranks 8th amongst all US metro areas with a population of at least 1 million for employment growth.

So you have faster-than-average employment growth and the most middle-class accommodating housing market on the East Coast. There's literally nothing stopping city and region from being the fastest-growing by population in the Northeast Corridor.

Last edited by Duderino; 01-29-2024 at 08:40 AM..
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Old 01-29-2024, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
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We ended up here by accident. We lived In NYC for 15 years all over the place before we left the city for Rochester for work. Always thought it would be so cool to retire in NYC. Of course, we always knew that was a long shot unless you have significant wealth. The prices there (for everything) are insultingly high. It's ridiculous.

When we saw what you get for your money in Philly, we realized that we didn't have to 1. be independently wealthy to live in a world class city with 95% of the stuff you get in NY and 2. We didn't have to wait until we retire.

I'd love it if there was a 24 hour vibe like NYC has. The 24 hour pharmacy/bodega thing is so cool. And the 24 hour presence of people on the street adds such a feeling of safety we just don't have here. But I'd rather not have people in 24 hour shops exposed to the risk of crime that exists in this town late at night. So I can live without it.

We still have many friends in NY and our kid lives up there. We have a steady stream of visitors from NY. I can't remember the last time someone came who wasn't immediately looking at apartments here. Universally, visiting New Yorkers talk about moving here, our daughter included.

I think the NY-to-PHL pipeline has been pretty full and will likely increase in the future. The price-to-value ratio is better in Philly than any other city on the East Coast by far.

Last edited by Redddog; 01-29-2024 at 10:04 AM..
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Old 01-30-2024, 07:46 AM
 
Location: New York City
9,380 posts, read 9,349,798 times
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Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
We ended up here by accident. We lived In NYC for 15 years all over the place before we left the city for Rochester for work. Always thought it would be so cool to retire in NYC. Of course, we always knew that was a long shot unless you have significant wealth. The prices there (for everything) are insultingly high. It's ridiculous.

When we saw what you get for your money in Philly, we realized that we didn't have to 1. be independently wealthy to live in a world class city with 95% of the stuff you get in NY and 2. We didn't have to wait until we retire.

I'd love it if there was a 24 hour vibe like NYC has. The 24 hour pharmacy/bodega thing is so cool. And the 24 hour presence of people on the street adds such a feeling of safety we just don't have here. But I'd rather not have people in 24 hour shops exposed to the risk of crime that exists in this town late at night. So I can live without it.

We still have many friends in NY and our kid lives up there. We have a steady stream of visitors from NY. I can't remember the last time someone came who wasn't immediately looking at apartments here. Universally, visiting New Yorkers talk about moving here, our daughter included.

I think the NY-to-PHL pipeline has been pretty full and will likely increase in the future. The price-to-value ratio is better in Philly than any other city on the East Coast by far.
More like ~75%, but I agree with all your points.

It is a tough decision (at least for me) to leave New York, because as much as I love Philadelphia, I prefer New York. But each year my partner and I review finances and scan the markets, and the purchasing power in Manhattan is not realistic. Our building in NYC reminds me of 10 Rittenhouse, and all units for sale are at least double that of 10 Rittenhouse and higher HOA fees and slightly higher taxes. We rent from an owner, but it's insane to buy...
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Old 01-30-2024, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,697 posts, read 973,987 times
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Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
More like ~75%, but I agree with all your points.
lol. Ok maybe not 95%.

Would we be going down a rabbit hole if we we're to drill down on what people think you get in NY that Philly cannot give you?
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Old 01-30-2024, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,191 posts, read 9,089,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
More like ~75%, but I agree with all your points.

It is a tough decision (at least for me) to leave New York, because as much as I love Philadelphia, I prefer New York. But each year my partner and I review finances and scan the markets, and the purchasing power in Manhattan is not realistic. Our building in NYC reminds me of 10 Rittenhouse, and all units for sale are at least double that of 10 Rittenhouse and higher HOA fees and slightly higher taxes. We rent from an owner, but it's insane to buy...
Let me know when you plan to move back. I can put you in touch with a slew of good agents. Or you can just read the posts on phillymag.com.

Speaking of Phillymag, my colleague Victor Fiorillo did a "One of Us" interview (a feature that runs on the last inside page of every print issue) with a fellow named Raj Hadar, a rapper and author of the surprise hit children's book "P is for Pterodactyl: The Worst Alphabet Book Ever."

In it, he cited a friend of his who moved from Brooklyn to Philadelphia and said after he moved here, "It's like 80 percent of New York at 20 percent of the cost!"
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Old 01-30-2024, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,191 posts, read 9,089,745 times
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Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
lol. Ok maybe not 95%.

Would we be going down a rabbit hole if we we're to drill down on what people think you get in NY that Philly cannot give you?
I know you asked cpomp, but I would say the differences are more of degree than of kind.

If you're into luxury shopping, you will find far more luxury retailers, including brands you will not find either on Walnut Street or in King of Prussia, in Manhattan.

There's far more live theater in New York than here.

We have a world-class art museum. New York has at least four.

The Reading Terminal Market may top any single New York public market in terms of the overall experience, but New York has more public markets, and the seasonal ones are bigger than our biggest seasonal markets.

And if you want a bargain, it seems that everyone in New York knows someone who "can get it for you wholesale."

And so on.
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Old 01-30-2024, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,697 posts, read 973,987 times
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Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
I know you asked cpomp, but I would say the differences are more of degree than of kind.

If you're into luxury shopping, you will find far more luxury retailers, including brands you will not find either on Walnut Street or in King of Prussia, in Manhattan.

There's far more live theater in New York than here.

We have a world-class art museum. New York has at least four.

The Reading Terminal Market may top any single New York public market in terms of the overall experience, but New York has more public markets, and the seasonal ones are bigger than our biggest seasonal markets.

And if you want a bargain, it seems that everyone in New York knows someone who "can get it for you wholesale."

And so on.
Oh, the question isn't just to cpomp, though he does have applicable experience as a "duel citizen."

Most of these points are all true. Though I don't know that it necessarily addresses the root of the argument. NY is 10 times the size of Philly. So the fact that they have more theatre or shopping choices is obvious. My point is that Philly has those things. You can spend $150k on a watch here. You can see shows at several top notch theatres here. You have an entire boulevard devoted to world class museums here.

I was more talking about things you can get in NY that you cannot get here. For me, top of that list is the 24/hr. "city that never sleeps" thing that NY has.

As far as the "bargain" thing? I've never once heard that someone needs to travel into Manhattan to score a deal on something.
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Old 01-30-2024, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
14,191 posts, read 9,089,745 times
Reputation: 10546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redddog View Post
Oh, the question isn't just to cpomp, though he does have applicable experience as a "duel citizen."

Most of these points are all true. Though I don't know that it necessarily addresses the root of the argument. NY is 10 times the size of Philly. So the fact that they have more theatre or shopping choices is obvious. My point is that Philly has those things. You can spend $150k on a watch here. You can see shows at several top notch theatres here. You have an entire boulevard devoted to world class museums here.

I was more talking about things you can get in NY that you cannot get here. For me, top of that list is the 24/hr. "city that never sleeps" thing that NY has.

As far as the "bargain" thing? I've never once heard that someone needs to travel into Manhattan to score a deal on something.
I think the reason scale can make a difference (and does for some) is:

Consider the difference between going to the corner store or C-store for a box of cereal and going to the supermarket for one.

The C-store may have exactly what you want, but if you don't know exactly what you want, or the C-store doesn't have what you want, then the cereal aisle of the supermarket is probably where you want to be. The presence of many more choices may make choosing difficult (and does for many, I understand), but for a certain type of person, the presence of all those options is a thrill in itself.

Those are the people who will move from Philadelphia to Manhattan, assuming they can afford it or find a way to make the housing work. The rest will move from one of the outer boroughs, Brooklyn especially, to Philadelphia.
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Old 01-30-2024, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
7,271 posts, read 10,607,615 times
Reputation: 8823
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
More like ~75%, but I agree with all your points.

It is a tough decision (at least for me) to leave New York, because as much as I love Philadelphia, I prefer New York. But each year my partner and I review finances and scan the markets, and the purchasing power in Manhattan is not realistic. Our building in NYC reminds me of 10 Rittenhouse, and all units for sale are at least double that of 10 Rittenhouse and higher HOA fees and slightly higher taxes. We rent from an owner, but it's insane to buy...
That's fair. I know that many people develop quite an attachment to NYC. It's admittedly not my ideal city for living, as it's far too overstimulating and intense for my taste. But there's no doubt it's a one-of-kind, incredible place to which only a handful of other cities on the planet could compare. And Philadelphians are lucky to have it relatively close by (and that its proximity which used to be a net negative for Philly has now turned into a net plus).
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