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Old 05-04-2015, 06:34 AM
 
10,787 posts, read 8,827,312 times
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Originally Posted by steeps View Post
Forty percent of luxury retailers concentrate their store locations in New York, Chicago, Las Vegas, Miami and San Francisco. According to JLL, and —have become the hot locations for luxury retailers to build storefronts. According to JLL's "The New World of Retail" report, these areas, followed by Dallas, Houston and Orlando, possess the attributes for better success due to population and income growth.

JLL Identifies the Top U.S. Markets for Luxury Retailers in New Report

1. New York
2. Chicago
3. Las Vegas
4. Miami
5. San Francisco

8 Best Shopping Destinations in the USA | U.S. News Travel

1. New York City
2. Chicago
3. San Francisco
4. Minneapolis/St Paul
5. Los Angeles
6. Boston
7. Houston
I posted part of this already.
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Old 05-04-2015, 06:42 AM
 
Location: New York City
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Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
I think that, with the exception of Radnor and Haverford townships, their MHI doesn't cross the $90k threshold I was using as the cutoff for "fabulously wealthy," but I may be wrong about, say, Springfield Township, Swarthmore Borough or some of the communities in the Brandywine Valley.
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Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
I posted part of this already.

Gotcha, I have to look, maybe those and out toward Glen Mills area.
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Old 05-04-2015, 09:18 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
Not trying to down South Jersey and CC, But the Pennsylvania suburbs have more money than both South Jersey and CC combined, and KoP is located by one of the busiest highway exchanges in the county. So it should be of no surprise that super luxe retailers pick KoP over anywhere else in the area.




I actually think there is a Burberry store in a mall outside of Pittsbugh.

I know there is not the same level of retail in PA as Miami, but its not like KoP and CC are the only places for shopping. Glen Mills is becoming a shopping destination, Ardmore, will grove, the giant plan for the former Granite Run Mall (I am very anxious to see how this turns out) and the outlets in Limerick. Most of these centers are mid to upscale: J crew, banana, Anthro etc, but its still good retail.

I have done a good amount of research on retail in the area, if CC were to gain a dozen or so high end retailers and maybe a Bloomingdales, the Philly area IMO would have their fair share of retail.

Just in department stores, we have 2 Bloomingdales, 3 Nordstroms (1 flagship), 1 Neimans, 1 saks, 3 Lord and Taylors, and a dozen macys.




Which ones? I do not know of any super high end retailers that chose CH before KoP? The fanciest stores in Cherry Hill are Hugo Boss and Nordstrom, both of which are fairly new.

J crew, Banana, White House etc are high end, but not on the level Burberry, Saint Laurent, Hermes, Neiman Marcus etc.

I do think Cherry Hill has come such a long way, but KoP will likely always be the "Philadelphia" destination if you want a $5000 handbag or pair of shoes, simply because of the money in the PA burbs, and the catchet of the KoP name.
The big money in Cherry Hill is not near the mall. There are 3 zipcodes & the zipcode near the mall is probably the lowest. The 08034 zipcode, which used to be for the whole township, has one development that has truly big money. Most of the big money is on the east side of town. Both Cherry Hill & Voorhees have areas that are working class that predate WWII.

I've known people in Cherry Hill who had the $$$ to live on the Main Line. For their individual personal reasons they did not.

Do you think that Section 8 in apartments doesn't have an effect on average incomes? Apparently, that's the view of the people who locate the stores. Make no mistake, Cherry Hill is middle class but there are islands of both extremes. outside of those islands, there are outliers. My parents' house was, frankly, in a development that they couldn't have afforded except that they got a super good deal. Several of the neighbors were old money who had married regular people. They could have lived on the Main Line but chose to live where the spouse would be more comfortable. These people did shop at the upscale shops on Chestnut west of Broad. When faced with going to King of Prussia they also said no thanks.

Taking average incomes is imperfect. They are writing customers off when they locate in the King of Prussia Mall in lieu of Center City.
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Old 05-04-2015, 10:13 AM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
The big money in Cherry Hill is not near the mall. There are 3 zipcodes & the zipcode near the mall is probably the lowest. The 08034 zipcode, which used to be for the whole township, has one development that has truly big money. Most of the big money is on the east side of town. Both Cherry Hill & Voorhees have areas that are working class that predate WWII.

I've known people in Cherry Hill who had the $$$ to live on the Main Line. For their individual personal reasons they did not.

Do you think that Section 8 in apartments doesn't have an effect on average incomes? Apparently, that's the view of the people who locate the stores. Make no mistake, Cherry Hill is middle class but there are islands of both extremes. outside of those islands, there are outliers. My parents' house was, frankly, in a development that they couldn't have afforded except that they got a super good deal. Several of the neighbors were old money who had married regular people. They could have lived on the Main Line but chose to live where the spouse would be more comfortable. These people did shop at the upscale shops on Chestnut west of Broad. When faced with going to King of Prussia they also said no thanks.

Taking average incomes is imperfect. They are writing customers off when they locate in the King of Prussia Mall in lieu of Center City.
But when you simply just look at wealth alone, SJ and CC just cannot compete with the PA burbs. I know SJ can support much of the same retail as KoP, but if say Prada were to choose to have a "Philadelphia" location anyone in their right mind would say Prada should go to KoP, not CC or SJ, because of A. more money near KoP and B. SJ and CC do not have as sophisticated of a retail scene as KoP.


On a side not though - Bloomingdales which is a step up from Nordstrom actually turned down the current Nordstrom spot in CH and later regretted that decision after seeing how well the Nordstrom performed there.

So I do think the demand is there, but when looking at the overall picture, many super lux retailers only have 1 location per metro so the odds of CH or CC beating out KoP are slim
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Old 05-04-2015, 11:57 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,816 posts, read 34,864,325 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
But when you simply just look at wealth alone, SJ and CC just cannot compete with the PA burbs. I know SJ can support much of the same retail as KoP, but if say Prada were to choose to have a "Philadelphia" location anyone in their right mind would say Prada should go to KoP, not CC or SJ, because of A. more money near KoP and B. SJ and CC do not have as sophisticated of a retail scene as KoP.


On a side not though - Bloomingdales which is a step up from Nordstrom actually turned down the current Nordstrom spot in CH and later regretted that decision after seeing how well the Nordstrom performed there.

So I do think the demand is there, but when looking at the overall picture, many super lux retailers only have 1 location per metro so the odds of CH or CC beating out KoP are slim
Just call me old-fashioned, the folks from the Main Line used to have some of their own high-scale shops & stores & went to Center City for the rest. There they mingled with their equally rich peers from the city & South Jersey and Delaware. Delaware seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle.

They are losing potential customers when they go to King of Prussia. They have some nice neat little formulas worked out, but they don't give the whole story. They also are obviously ignorant of the fact that maybe an upscale store in Atlanta might draw customers from 3 or 4 hours away, but people in the Delaware Valley don't like to drive the Sure-kill if they don't have to.
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Old 05-04-2015, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Midwest
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Originally Posted by Duderino View Post




To compare, the wealthiest borough of NYC, Manhattan, only has a MHI of $66,818 (2009 data): https://www.city-data.com/income/inco...-New-York.html
I apologize for correcting other people without really adding anything myself to this thread (not particularly interested in chain stores).

But the wealthiest borough of NYC in terms of Median Household income is Staten Island, and has been for a long time, although there's obviously more total wealth on Manhattan. Staten Island's MIH is over 70k.
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Old 05-04-2015, 03:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
On a side not though - Bloomingdales which is a step up from Nordstrom actually turned down the current Nordstrom spot in CH and later regretted that decision after seeing how well the Nordstrom performed there.
How do you know that Bloomingdales regretted the decision of not opening in CH? The chain is ownedby Macy's Inc. and they had many years of knowledge of the CH mall property.

They just didn't want it.

Maybe there'd be an opening for it if JCPenney were to close in CH Mall given JCPenney's debt issues.

But I'd think Moorestown Mall would be a better fit if somehow Sears moved to CH Mall at Penney's site, and Sears's spot in Moorestown was converted to Bloomingdales. But such a transaction would involve too many parties.

I'm surprised that PREIT is seriously renovating the Moorestown Mall food court at this point to make it much nicer. But the return on investment will have to be to lure some tenants in other parts of the mall.
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Old 05-04-2015, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Montco PA
2,219 posts, read 5,120,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
Just call me old-fashioned, the folks from the Main Line used to have some of their own high-scale shops & stores & went to Center City for the rest. There they mingled with their equally rich peers from the city & South Jersey and Delaware. Delaware seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle.

They are losing potential customers when they go to King of Prussia. They have some nice neat little formulas worked out, but they don't give the whole story. They also are obviously ignorant of the fact that maybe an upscale store in Atlanta might draw customers from 3 or 4 hours away, but people in the Delaware Valley don't like to drive the Sure-kill if they don't have to.
Well that tells me that the average world-view of a Delaware Valley resident is pretty small, then, if they can't/won't drive in the Schuylkill to get to their favorite store. Remember that a KOP location offers a convenient location for well-heeled patrons from the Reading, Lancaster, and Lehigh Valley areas, too. CC is probably a turn off to some of these people.

I think you aren't giving your own SJ enough credit, actually. There are plenty of luxury retailers there.
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Old 05-04-2015, 03:46 PM
 
Location: New York City
9,448 posts, read 9,471,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marltonguy View Post
How do you know that Bloomingdales regretted the decision of not opening in CH? The chain is ownedby Macy's Inc. and they had many years of knowledge of the CH mall property.

They just didn't want it.

Maybe there'd be an opening for it if JCPenney were to close in CH Mall given JCPenney's debt issues.

But I'd think Moorestown Mall would be a better fit if somehow Sears moved to CH Mall at Penney's site, and Sears's spot in Moorestown was converted to Bloomingdales. But such a transaction would involve too many parties.

I'm surprised that PREIT is seriously renovating the Moorestown Mall food court at this point to make it much nicer. But the return on investment will have to be to lure some tenants in other parts of the mall.
This was news passed along to me from management at the Nordstrom in KoP. Of course there is the chance that it may be a rumor, but Bloomingdales regional management had looked at CH for many years, but decided to opt out and Nordstrom quickly jumped at the site, thus a missed opportunity on Bloomingdales part, which was apparently shared in a statement from the chain.

They are still actively looking in the area for a 3rd location, my hope is still CC.
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Old 05-04-2015, 04:27 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,816 posts, read 34,864,325 times
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Originally Posted by BPP1999 View Post
Well that tells me that the average world-view of a Delaware Valley resident is pretty small, then, if they can't/won't drive in the Schuylkill to get to their favorite store. Remember that a KOP location offers a convenient location for well-heeled patrons from the Reading, Lancaster, and Lehigh Valley areas, too. CC is probably a turn off to some of these people.

I think you aren't giving your own SJ enough credit, actually. There are plenty of luxury retailers there.
You are simply trying to twist & turn to harass me. How much sense does this sentence make? If a retailer comes in with a single location & plants it in the King of Prussia Mall, why would you call it the favorite store of people for whom the King of Prussia Mall is a serious inconvenience. They simply won't go. It's not their favorite store. That is pure BS.

Look Hon, for generations people took the train to Center City to shop there from all directions. I don't care what's high end in the Cherry Hill & King of Prussia Malls. If there's only one, it should be in Center City.
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