Survivalist guide to Philly and its Delco suburbs -- plz feel free to add on or ask ?'s

[mcguirk]

I meant that some of Delco is dumpy. Drive down McDade Blvd from Woodlyn to Collingdale. It's ghetto by Chester, cleans up decently in Folsom, and starts to get gross around the intersection with 420 (and gets substantially worse as you move up the pike). I think the redevelopment of the MacDade Mall will do a TON to clean up the stretch between 420 and South Ave. The area has been depressed since the mall died in the late 90s.

Regardless, you are absolutely right. I spent a lot of time in Central Florida outside Disney. US 192 is the most depressing place in the world, and the affluent areas are just generic tract developments. There is literally no way to exit the development to get anywhere without a car. Living there for awhile made me realize how nice we have it here. There are only a few places in the country as charming and genuine as Swarthmore, Media, West Chester, and our main line. Even the walkable, early post-war suburbs like Folsom, whew I grew up, are unique to our region.

This reminds me: we are ruining the beauty of PA with stupid tract housing. Have you taken a drive out to the edges of Lancaster County lately? White collar families who want to live "in the country" (read: away from minorities and overlooking a farm) are moving into cheap, crapy tract housing that overlooks the farmland. I'm all for moving into the countryside -- although it's really more like the exurbs since the new residents are commuting back into Great Valley -- but it makes me sad that these people are spending $400k on a vinyl siding piece of crap when absolutely gorgeous ranchers that actually fit the landscape are falling apart right next door.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by mcguirk

I meant that some of Delco is dumpy. Drive down McDade Blvd from Woodlyn to Collingdale. It's ghetto by Chester, cleans up decently in Folsom, and starts to get gross around the intersection with 420 (and gets substantially worse as you move up the pike). I think the redevelopment of the MacDade Mall will do a TON to clean up the stretch between 420 and South Ave. The area has been depressed since the mall died in the late 90s.

Regardless, you are absolutely right. I spent a lot of time in Central Florida outside Disney. US 192 is the most depressing place in the world, and the affluent areas are just generic tract developments. There is literally no way to exit the development to get anywhere without a car. Living there for awhile made me realize how nice we have it here. There are only a few places in the country as charming and genuine as Swarthmore, Media, West Chester, and our main line. Even the walkable, early post-war suburbs like Folsom, whew I grew up, are unique to our region.

This reminds me: we are ruining the beauty of PA with stupid tract housing. Have you taken a drive out to the edges of Lancaster County lately? White collar families who want to live "in the country" (read: away from minorities and overlooking a farm) are moving into cheap, crapy tract housing that overlooks the farmland. I'm all for moving into the countryside -- although it's really more like the exurbs since the new residents are commuting back into Great Valley -- but it makes me sad that these people are spending $400k on a vinyl siding piece of crap when absolutely gorgeous ranchers that actually fit the landscape are falling apart right next door.

Yes I definately agree that parts of Delco need to clean up. I just hope the badlands dont keep pushing further out. If Philly keeps cleaning up a lot of that rift raft has to go somewhere, hopefully they will just leave the area.

And as much as I agree that is just what people want. They want new, and big and in many cases tasteless. Thats why I am more a fan of areas like malvern or Newtown Square where builders build homes to fit the landscape to keep the classic charm of the area, they dont just plop houses everywhere ruining the character much like western chester county and lancaster county.

[UDResident]

Originally Posted by cpomp

While I think that most of what you are saying a vague generalization that is exaggerated and false in a lot of aspects. I do find it a shame that outer delco (darby, folcroft, collingdale etc) is really on a downswing. It would be great if those areas transformed into a more young professional scene, rather than the most of the hoodlum type of people who live there now. But I would not categorize most of the suburbs as soulless, a majority of Delaware county is not soulless, though there a lot of new development in the newer suburbs however that comes in any city, even in the northeast. Much of chester bucks and montgomery counties have a lot of old money beautiful areas, even though toll brothers is taking over, I just think if your going to be harsh on Philadelphia and calling it a southern city, than you might as well put New York Boston and DC(may be south already) in that category too.

Uhh.... the places directly bordering or in close proximity to the city are not outer Delco. They are eastern Delco or the "inner-ring". Outer Delco is the new, sprawled out suburbs to the far north, far west, far northwest, far southwest, etc.

Wow, way to insult people who have worked harder than you could probably ever imagine doing. Hoodlums? I think not. Try working class and lower-middle class people and immigrants. It actually would not be great if they turned into a young professional scene, as they are family areas where the school district and the kids are what matters.

Darby is the closest thing to ghetto outside of Chester in Delaware County. I'll give you that. Folcroft and Collingdale might be one day but currently are nowhere near as bad as Darby.

Originally Posted by mcguirk

The inner ring's negative transformation is entirely predictable. It's the logical place to push poor people.

Your post is very angsty. There are still a lot of edge towns in the inner ring that are un-pretentious, quality places to grow up. I lived in Folsom until college, and as I experienced the rest of the Philadelphia metro, I realized how dumpy it actually is. Then I saw a lot of the country and learned more about urbanization and ring theory and I'm slowly realizing that the area is not at all bad. I used to long to be in a "rich" family from Springfield with a nice house that had vinyl siding and a porch, and then I realized how boring that is. And I wanted to live in a place where I could really walk around until I travelled to rural Florida and Exton where you can't even get milk without a car. Delco really is a unique place and we should appreciate that.

When it comes time to buy my first hoyse, I have my eye on Lansdowne. There aren't many places in America where you can buy your own Victorian for under 350k.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by FearMr.Met

Hallouise hit the nail on the head with this post. I know people from outside the region read a particular city's forum to get information about the place they either want to travel to or reside. Philly is a self loathing city, but in a weird twisted way, we take pride in our ugliness. For instance, if someone refers to you as an a**h**e, you can either a.) become offended and strike back verbally with an insult or b.) give a smirk and say, "you know it, I strive to be one". Really, we don't but we're opinionated. Sometimes borderline obnoxious if we want to spew our philosophies or passions. But that's us, we're passionate people.

There wasn't a real point to this post. I figured I'd throw a knuckleball to spice things up. I guess it can be perceived as a pros and cons of Philadelphia post, but that's been done... so consider it a rant or even a between the cracks reality check for someone new to the area.

The surrounding area comment... I'm not calling all of those towns mentioned trash, some of the people, however, yes. Trash is everywhere, but certain town's trash unfortunately fulfills a stereotype of these areas. But in all seriousness, the metro NY area has undergone a transformation. Certain cities across the Hudson in NJ that had many parallels of the Folcrofts and Landsdownes have been refurbished. Prices are through the roof now for rentals and homes to buy. I don't understand why some of these places never attempted to become part of a metro rather than a dilapidated outskirt. I saw someone mention Landsdowne. Like West Philly, there's beautiful architecture but many at least on the East Landsdowne side are barely standing. Landsdowne however has some nice spots, unfortunately Southwest/West is right there. Once again, I never understood how West Philly/Southwest (Kingsessing area) didn't ever have investors come in and try to renovate neighborhoods in the manner that sections of Brooklyn were re-done. So much potential. Same goes with Upper Darby, but like Philly corruption rules. Darby...not so much.

Lansdowne is really nothing like Folcroft. As for why Philadelphia's bordering municipalities haven't been gentrified the way Brooklyn has (even though Lansdowne, for example, has seen a noticeable influx of the gentrifying type, young families and young professionals, etc) is because for starters, Manhattan is roughly the size of Center City, South Philly, North Philly, the Riverwards, and a small part of the Northeast combined. It took until the 2000s for Manhattan to be completely gentrified to the point where the outer boroughs such as Brooklyn were being noticeably gentrified. Unlike Philadelphia, Manhattan was always a place where people wanted to live. It's been steadily gentrifying since the early 20th Century and even earlier than that. Not to mention the fact that Manhattan is mainly multifamily whereas Philadelphia was mainly built up with rowhomes for families.

As for the heroin comment... it's actually kids from the nicer suburbs that are fueling the heroin trade. No need to look into the city, simply take a look at places like my old neighborhood that are used by them for their vices.

Originally Posted by cpomp

See I disagree with you there. From an uneducated outsider, when they hear the "Philadelphia-Camden-Wilmington" MSA they go o no dangerous poor cities, why would anyone live there it must be terrible. Philadelphia is getting of that image, but not quick enough, cant say the same for the other two. However, my point on that is I feel that southeastern Pa and areas of South Jersey are some of the best areas to live in the country. Too many people are I guess obtuse, I have done extensive traveling of the entire area and I would not categorize it as dumpy. People just need to open their eyes and travel as you mentioned. Philadelphia is just a very old established area often mistaken for poor and dumpy.

Personally when I go down south or west, and I see an 8 lane road through a suburban town with a target on one side and home depot on the other, and the little tract housing blobs surrounding them I think that is so tacky and ugly and will look dumpy in 50 years or so, thats why I love Philadelphia more because so much of the area is classic and beautiful older development like Media, Swarthmore, Drexel Hill, Newtown Square, Radnor, Main Line, West Chester, Chadds Ford, Doylestown, Newtown, etc. And even newer developing areas for the most part are built in an acceptable way keeping regards to the town rather than just throwing up 500 houses that all look the same and ruin the character of the area.

I know it sounds like im defending my poor friend, but im not trying to act "angsty" or sound condescending.

Wilmington gets unfairly lumped in with Camden and Chester. It's much more like a mini Baltimore, only with much less decline and much less of a ghetto than Baltimore.

[cpomp]

UDresident, I realized after I posted that I messed up calling inner-ring delco outer delco, I just didnt bother changing it. But One of the reasons why a lot of those towns are going downhill is because of the type of people who live there. There are towns that are resisting it, but the hard working class families are becoming sparse as the years go on, which is adding to the downturn.

[UDResident]

Originally Posted by cpomp

UDresident, I realized after I posted that I messed up calling inner-ring delco outer delco, I just didnt bother changing it. But One of the reasons why a lot of those towns are going downhill is because of the type of people who live there. There are towns that are resisting it, but the hard working class families are becoming sparse as the years go on, which is adding to the downturn.

I know that all too well. Something people need to understand though is that those neighborhoods serve one purpose: to be a place for people to "move up" to, whether it be from lesser neighborhoods or even from another country. They continue to serve that purpose, for better or worse.

[LHM]

Terrible original post, wrong on so many levels.