Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Philadelphia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-26-2018, 08:15 AM
 
Location: New York City
9,340 posts, read 9,204,589 times
Reputation: 6428

Advertisements

After catching up on the posts, I think one thing most of us agree on is that the finger pointing from all sides needs to stop, the status quo will never change unless the sides change. There is definitely a lack of accountability.

Philadelphia also needs to get serious policing, and people need to learn to respect authority, that seems to have disappeared.

 
Old 03-26-2018, 09:06 AM
 
4,823 posts, read 4,906,704 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
Someone tried to explain it upthread. I can't do any better wrt an explanation.

By the same token explain why are most mass shootings are committed by white guys? And bombers too. Unibomber. Tim McVeigh. The new one in Austin. The insane torturers and serial killers. Gary Heidnik. Jeffrey Dahmer. BTK. Ted Bundy.

Violent black guys mostly kill other black people, one by one. These lone wolf, always generic-looking, white guys want to kill as many as possible. The guy who massacred dozens in the Pulse night club wasn't white but was not AA either.

Yes, I know the above is drifting into OT.
Right, so instead of even answering why violent crime is so high among local African American males, we veer into the white ''mass shooters''.

Still, if you want to drag the crazy lone white killers into the equation, their overall crime rates are low to comparable to population rates.

Why are African-American males' rate so out of proportion with their population rates? No one wants or has an explanation it seems. Of course this issue has to drift OT.

African-American males may be killing each other but their rates of violent crime are almost 9 times the rate of their population. Why? How can it be so off the charts? These same shooters have killed and injured plenty of innocent bystanders (ie. people sitting on their porch, people sitting inside their homes watching TV, kids in playgrounds, etc.) so to simply act as if it's just killing each other is misplaced and distracts the discussion.

It took the latest school shooting to start a movement to create gun legislation; where has the African-American community been on doing something similar the past x # of decades?

You and some others have ruled-out the ''no father around'' issue.

Last edited by Kamms; 03-26-2018 at 09:45 AM..
 
Old 03-26-2018, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
12,000 posts, read 12,853,256 times
Reputation: 8355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
Right, so instead of even answering why violent crime is so high among local African American males, we veer into the white ''mass shooters''.

Still, if you want to drag the crazy lone white killers into the equation, their overall crime rates are low to comparable to population.

Why are African-American males' rate so out of proportion with their population rates? No one wants or has an explanation it seems. Of course this issue has to drift OT.

African-American males may be killing each other but their rates of violent crime are almost 9 times the rate of their population. Why? How can it be so off the charts?

You and some others have ruled-out the ''no father around'' issue.


It's no secret that the longest and costliest war in US history has been waged in AA urban communities for decades now. In the 1920's Alcohol Prohibition birthed WHITE organized crime, and violent organizations that infiltrated all arenas of society and public offices. Only in the 1980s was this influence and violence curtailed. Why are the actions of white people--even when in significant numbers-never seen as a moral failing of the entire group? Of course when economic hardship is combined with a vastly profitable and easy to enter illegal market there will be gangs, violence, turf wars, etc. Alcohol distributors no longer settle business disputes through violence and intimidation because there is legal recourse.


To speak on black on black crime without understanding the history of racism and discrimination, the creation of ghettos/redlining, deindustrialization/corporate hegemony, the war on drugs and mass incarceration (among other issues) is shortsighted and pointless. To do so would be an attempt to portray an entire group of humans as having some sort of moral failing and justification for the treatment of said group. Ya know--racism. So to you and so many others that spout the same hollow theories and vague accusations against Millions--stop beating around the bush, wanting others to infer what you are implying. Claim your racism! Or don't-because there probably is still something you feel deep down that contradicts your blanket theories.
 
Old 03-26-2018, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,118 posts, read 18,364,781 times
Reputation: 25686
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
Someone tried to explain it upthread. I can't do any better wrt an explanation.

By the same token explain why are most mass shootings are committed by white guys? And bombers too. Unibomber. Tim McVeigh. The new one in Austin. The insane torturers and serial killers. Gary Heidnik. Jeffrey Dahmer. BTK. Ted Bundy.

Violent black guys mostly kill other black people, one by one. These lone wolf, always generic-looking, white guys want to kill as many as possible. The guy who massacred dozens in the Pulse night club wasn't white but was not AA either.

Yes, I know the above is drifting into OT.
Also explain why the largest terrorist death count was created solely by Muslim males, and not with scary AR-15, common, semi automatic rifles, but with box cutters, and airliners.
 
Old 03-26-2018, 10:51 AM
 
4,823 posts, read 4,906,704 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
It's no secret that the longest and costliest war in US history has been waged in AA urban communities for decades now. In the 1920's Alcohol Prohibition birthed WHITE organized crime, and violent organizations that infiltrated all arenas of society and public offices. Only in the 1980s was this influence and violence curtailed. Why are the actions of white people--even when in significant numbers-never seen as a moral failing of the entire group? Of course when economic hardship is combined with a vastly profitable and easy to enter illegal market there will be gangs, violence, turf wars, etc. Alcohol distributors no longer settle business disputes through violence and intimidation because there is legal recourse.


To speak on black on black crime without understanding the history of racism and discrimination, the creation of ghettos/redlining, deindustrialization/corporate hegemony, the war on drugs and mass incarceration (among other issues) is shortsighted and pointless. To do so would be an attempt to portray an entire group of humans as having some sort of moral failing and justification for the treatment of said group. Ya know--racism. So to you and so many others that spout the same hollow theories and vague accusations against Millions--stop beating around the bush, wanting others to infer what you are implying. Claim your racism! Or don't-because there probably is still something you feel deep down that contradicts your blanket theories.
Please stop with the default ''racism'' baloney.

Well, given the history of U.S. racism, oppression, and the other points you make, why has the violent crime skyrocketed in the black community since the 1960s forward?

Btw, I didn't make this a black-on-black crime issue, someone else did. I just asked why the rates are so out of whack with population rates. Again, it's a Philly crime thread so Philly is dealing with African-American male violent crime issues.

Well, at least you provided a response. It's all rooted in racism, yet racism has always been around. It has nothing to do with the destruction of the family and the fact that almost 50% of U.S. births are paid for by Medicaid. There's no racial point here as I don't know the stats or care; the almost 50% Medicaid picking up the tab for births is an ominous sign.

The example of 1920s Prohibition and ''white'' mobsters with today's black gangs is misplaced. Not a good analogy at all. White crime rates never were as out of kilter with population rates.

And calm down...everyone talks about needing and wanting to talk about racism and other urban issues until someone actually does. No wonder no one wants to have discussions...you're shouted down as a ''racist'' or some other scripted name.

So then, how do we deal with the violent crime in Philly? Wouldn't an actual racist not care since, as you and another poster stated, it's black males killing other black males/black on black crime?

Last edited by Kamms; 03-26-2018 at 11:06 AM..
 
Old 03-26-2018, 11:21 AM
 
10,787 posts, read 8,672,443 times
Reputation: 3983
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
After catching up on the posts, I think one thing most of us agree on is that the finger pointing from all sides needs to stop, the status quo will never change unless the sides change. There is definitely a lack of accountability.

Philadelphia also needs to get serious policing, and people need to learn to respect authority, that seems to have disappeared.
But most Philly crimes are actually going down. I mean did you look at the link that was posted previously?
Every single category was in negative category.
 
Old 03-26-2018, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
12,000 posts, read 12,853,256 times
Reputation: 8355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
Please stop with the default ''racism'' baloney.

Well, given the history of U.S. racism, oppression, and the other points you make, why has the violent crime skyrocketed in the black community since the 1960s forward?

Btw, I didn't make this a black-on-black crime issue, someone else did. I just asked why the rates are so out of whack with population rates. Again, it's a Philly crime thread so Philly is dealing with African-American male violent crime issues.

Well, at least you provided a response. It's all rooted in racism, yet racism has always been around. It has nothing to do with the destruction of the family and the fact that almost 50% of U.S. births are paid for by Medicaid. There's no racial point here as I don't know the stats or care; the almost 50% Medicaid picking up the tab for births is an ominous sign.

The example of 1920s Prohibition and ''white'' mobsters with today's black gangs is misplaced. Not a good analogy at all. White crime rates never were as out of kilter with population rates.

And calm down...everyone talks about needing and wanting to talk about racism and other urban issues until someone actually does. No wonder no one wants to have discussions...you're shouted down as a ''racist'' or some other scripted name.

So then, how do we deal with the violent crime in Philly? Wouldn't an actual racist not care since, as you and another poster stated, it's black males killing other black males/black on black crime?
Redlining/the creation of ghettos, deindustrialization, war on "drugs", mass incarceration are all issues that really took hold in the 1960's up until the present day. Marijuana/Drug prohibition is a perfectly relevant analogy to alcohol prohibition-the similarities are scary actually-and make for a perfect case study that humans do not learn from the past-which creates a cyclical history and society.

I don't disagree that a child having two parents is important, but you are missing some things. Marriage does not always equate to having both parents involved in a child's life-and the opposite is true. Did you know that there are studies that show black fathers to be more involved in their children's lives than any other race on average? I am not denying single parent homes is a problem in the black community-even if maybe overstated. But it is also a problem in the white community today--and a rapidly growing one.
(Edited to mention that Grandparents raising grandchildren is also a major problem today mostly thanks to the opioid epidemic.) And again this ties into mass incarceration of black males and lack of economic opportunity in black communities. While it is true black families had higher co-habitation rates than whites before welfare was expanded to allow blacks to receive it in the 1960's-I don't think welfare itself can be blamed, even if single mother homes are somewhat prioritized or even encouraged. There is a lot involved is what I'm getting at.

Last edited by 2e1m5a; 03-26-2018 at 12:02 PM..
 
Old 03-26-2018, 11:44 AM
 
10,787 posts, read 8,672,443 times
Reputation: 3983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Also explain why the largest terrorist death count was created solely by Muslim males, and not with scary AR-15, common, semi automatic rifles, but with box cutters, and airliners.
And they were all from Saudi Arabia... a country we have never gone to war with and continue to support. I wonder what the new nation security director thinks about the Saudis. But we should stick to our local situation wrt this thread.
 
Old 03-26-2018, 12:32 PM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,118 posts, read 18,364,781 times
Reputation: 25686
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
And they were all from Saudi Arabia... a country we have never gone to war with and continue to support. I wonder what the new nation security director thinks about the Saudis. But we should stick to our local situation wrt this thread.
Agree on both counts.
 
Old 03-26-2018, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Morrison, CO
34,118 posts, read 18,364,781 times
Reputation: 25686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamms View Post
So then, how do we deal with the violent crime in Philly? Wouldn't an actual racist not care since, as you and another poster stated, it's black males killing other black males/black on black crime?
I agree that Philly, and just about all other big cities have an inner city black, on black crime problem that accounts for much of the statistics of murderers using guns (what some people call "gun violence that really is PEOPLE violence). If you take out suicides, these make most up most of the violence with a gun statistics. My perception is most of the black on black violence is drug, turf, and gang related.

To be fair, the politicians of both parties have done a great disservice to the black community. They don't care about the violence problem in cities. Their policies, especially those started by LBJ, and continued by every other Congress, and President since have helped to set the black community back, and create a culture of poverty, dependency, and high percentage crime.

Many young black people have no hope of upward mobility. They are stuck, and they don't have the same opportunities more affluent kids in the suburbs have. Yes, it is partially their own fault, as other segments of society pull themselves out of poverty, but it is also a case of their circumstances. To reduce black on black crime will take different strategies that what we've been doing since 1964, and will require a paradigm shift from the victimhood mentality much of the black community possesses.

Before it was found out Bill Cosby was a sexual molester, he had some good ideas, and always promoted EDUCATION as a way up, and out. Maybe start there. The black community needs access to GOOD educational opportunities, and needs to value that education more than some of them do.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Philadelphia

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top