Official Greater Philadelphia Area Crime Thread (kindergarten, paid, village)

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Absolutely not. But neither would we be trying to parse the incident for evidence of racial ill will.

It's an unfortunate byproduct of our past, which, as we should all know by now, continues to inform our present. One reason why it remains a sore point for many is because we keep uncovering fresh evidence of past incidents where ill will on the part of the dominant group (members) towards the subjugated group (members) turned out to be the (or a major) animating factor for the action, but it was all covered up, buried or glossed over.

I was talking last night with a friend who I've had several conversations of this sort with, including one where I found his notions of what accounts for group differences highly disturbing. He's learned something about that since then, and we both agree that the current situation really needs to change, and that the best way to do it would be person-to-person, based on getting to know people (one major reason the tide turned so quickly on LGBT rights and marriage equality). So what do you do when you operate in the face of strong social headwinds blowing in the other direction?

I know it is an unfortunate byproduct of our past, but slavery in the US is not the first and only instance of human enslavement. It is obviously the most recent (in our history) and the most prevalent example in our lives, but the horrible actions of our ancestors have been happening since the beginning of time, so this constant need to bring up slavery as a blame game, and large institutions issuing these phony marketing technique apologies is so silly in my mind. What good does that do for anyone?

Slavery, our past and even present issues with race and mistreatment should be taught to everyone in an educational manner: learning about the past, how do we move forward, how to unite as a country, and even as the human race.

I use Christopher Columbus as an example of people not educating themselves on the topic of human savagery. People act as if the Native Americans were sitting in circles singing kum by yah, then Columbus and his crew arrive and slaughter everyone. (that did happen), but the Native Americans were slaughtering and raping each other before anyone from Europe arrived, so who is the bad guy?

I can explain that point much more eloquently in person, but to me it comes down to us a species making mistakes and our natural tendencies to judge and harm one another, yet its never "our" fault, its always the white man or black man or gay man...

Of course I am not saying we should ignore our past, I think our past should be open, but the healing process is a two way street.

So the Ernest Owens crowd does absolutely nothing to engage, heal or work with the community. They live their lives in bitterness and division. People like him have no desire to heal and grow, and the prevalence of social media can be a very dangerous and harmful tool.

So I actually have no idea how we grow and heal as a nation or community. There are so many outside factors and issues on both sides of the street. I would say a good start is to address issues within each community. You can't fix others until you fix yourself.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

I use Christopher Columbus as an example of people not educating themselves on the topic of human savagery. People act as if the Native Americans were sitting in circles singing kum by yah, then Columbus and his crew arrive and slaughter everyone. (that did happen), but the Native Americans were slaughtering and raping each other before anyone from Europe arrived, so who is the bad guy?

OT, but since you brought this up, I highly recommend the books, "1491" and "1493" if you haven't read them already. Definitely will give you some incite into what the pre-Columbian world was like, first contact, and the aftermath.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Slavery, our past and even present issues with race and mistreatment should be taught to everyone in an educational manner: learning about the past, how do we move forward, how to unite as a country, and even as the human race.[...]
So I actually have no idea how we grow and heal as a nation or community. There are so many outside factors and issues on both sides of the street. I would say a good start is to address issues within each community. You can't fix others until you fix yourself.

You and that friend I mentioned are on the same page in the songbook, and whatever I may say that might lead you to the opposite conclusion aside, I'm with you way, way more than I'm against you.

But I guess I would say that slavery American-style is different in that it ultimately led those who practiced it to construct an elaborate defense that relied on a conception that the people so enslaved deserved it merely from being born into a race that (ultimately) had nothing that put it on par with the rest of humanity. Now, I will grant that I've not read Orlando Patterson's "Slavery and Social Death," nor do I know whether the Greeks, who seem not to have based their slavery on race, held similar notions. And where blacks enslave other blacks, as in Sudan, well, that simply reinforces my prior statement that were the oppressed to rule the world, it would be no more just or fair.

Your larger point that human beings are basically s**ts is pretty much spot on. And I do agree that Owens really does need to learn how to engage with his critics, including his most severe ones, better. But I should also note that I'm generally a free speech fundamentalist. That may not mean that a publication needs to give anyone and everyone a platform, but I generally take a dim view of no-platforming of any kind.

Including for a white supremacist.

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

You and that friend I mentioned are on the same page in the songbook, and whatever I may say that might lead you to the opposite conclusion aside, I'm with you way, way more than I'm against you.

But I guess I would say that slavery American-style is different in that it ultimately led those who practiced it to construct an elaborate defense that relied on a conception that the people so enslaved deserved it merely from being born into a race that (ultimately) had nothing that put it on par with the rest of humanity. Now, I will grant that I've not read Orlando Patterson's "Slavery and Social Death," nor do I know whether the Greeks, who seem not to have based their slavery on race, held similar notions. And where blacks enslave other blacks, as in Sudan, well, that simply reinforces my prior statement that were the oppressed to rule the world, it would be no more just or fair.

Your larger point that human beings are basically s**ts is pretty much spot on. And I do agree that Owens really does need to learn how to engage with his critics, including his most severe ones, better. But I should also note that I'm generally a free speech fundamentalist. That may not mean that a publication needs to give anyone and everyone a platform, but I generally take a dim view of no-platforming of any kind.

Including for a white supremacist.

Free Speech fundamentalism should never ignore social responsibility. Just because you have the right to say whatever you want doesn't mean you should. It feels less like your magazine is more interested in clicks than it is any kind of responsibility. Now more than ever, we need reason and leadership in our publications, especially because people can't seem to think for themselves and see that inflammatory content is creating more division than it is solidarity.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

Free Speech fundamentalism should never ignore social responsibility. Just because you have the right to say whatever you want doesn't mean you should. It feels less like your magazine is more interested in clicks than it is any kind of responsibility. Now more than ever, we need reason and leadership in our publications, especially because people can't seem to think for themselves and see that inflammatory content is creating more division than it is solidarity.

Right. Does anyone think PhillyMag would have a white guy openly race baiting?

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

You realize, of course, that I wasn't saying that was what happened. I'm saying it's the only scenario I could conjure up where White's narrative made sense to me.

It's not so much that I am only concerned about whites behaving badly as it is that I have gotten sensitive to the presumption of non-innocence many whites seem to ascribe to blacks, whether they're behaving badly or not. And you might note that I've not ascribed racial animus to Schellenger because I know better. His having priors was relevant only to White's narrative.

Of course I know you're scenario is not what you think actually happened. I thought there was an engagement about different scenarios that may have played out; the response to your wrestling move scnario by Schellenger was simply spit-balling.

White's prior, 8 months ago, includes, ominously, ''possession of instrument of crime with intent''. The ''intent'' part of this charge relates to ''the intent to use it (the instrument of crime) criminally''. Charged in Nov. '17 and in July '18 for the same offense; of course, the additional charges are vastly different for each incident.

Wonder how and why the media published Schellenger's criminal history several days prior to White's? They even dug up Schellenger's records from Florida and yet several days pass before White's own very recent criminal past (8 months ago) here in Philly is published.

Journalist should have vetted both prior to publishing Schellenger's records on Saturday with the case still very ''hot''. The same article with Schellenger's records should have included White's. No one checked White's Nov. '17 record here in Philly but they could find Schellenger's 1999 case in Chester County and a 2009 case in Florida. Hmm.

Same goes if they published White's record first without Schellenger's. Tainted and biased, either way. Opinions, scenarios, and the race card were all dealt when Schellenger's criminal records were published. Meanwhile, White just concluded a criminal matter in March '18, complete with a ''possession of instr of crime w/intent'' charge, the most ominous, IMO, of these prior charges.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Kamms

Right. Does anyone think PhillyMag would have a white guy openly race baiting?

It did, for many years. Well, maybe not openly, but if you read his editorials, which opened every issue, you soon got the impression that for all he said he loved this city, he really thought it was going to Hell in a handbasket, and They were one of the main reasons why.

(I also said this in a remark on his passing that I posted on my Facebook profile when news of his passing broke on Christmas Eve. And the editors did not respond negatively to my posting this. That may have been in part because I still acknowledged that this city was better for his having transformed this magazine into the pioneer of the "city magazine" genre.)

And the magazine had no black full-time members of the editorial staff prior to my hiring in the fall of 2015. This was another sore point among the mag's numerous black critics. (FWIW, Owens is not full-time but works as a freelancer, as I did prior to 2015. I have since been joined by another black full-timer, a whip-smart Haitian-American who runs our business channel.)

His son, who took charge of the company around the time I started freelancing for the mag in 2013, is blessedly free of that baggage.

[cpomp]

How many people have been shot so far in Philly this year?

What I find most disturbing is the animation graphic. There shooting incidents are rather widespread and not confined to any one neighborhood.

I know this isn't just one metric of how to measure crime, and shootings don't define a city, but the graphic certainly tells a story.

[nephi215]

Originally Posted by cpomp

How many people have been shot so far in Philly this year?

What I find most disturbing is the animation graphic. There shooting incidents are rather widespread and not confined to any one neighborhood.

I know this isn't just one metric of how to measure crime, and shootings don't define a city, but the graphic certainly tells a story.

That isn't unique to Philly. For example look at Chicago
Chicago shooting victims - Chicago Tribune

However, yes the problem needs to be addressed.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

How many people have been shot so far in Philly this year?

What I find most disturbing is the animation graphic. There shooting incidents are rather widespread and not confined to any one neighborhood.

I know this isn't just one metric of how to measure crime, and shootings don't define a city, but the graphic certainly tells a story.

I naturally hate this stuff. Some perspective though. There were 3 homicides in less than a week on SF's BART. And they lost a huge medical convention(infusion of $40 million in that city) because of the horrible homeless problem.