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Old 06-19-2013, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,166 posts, read 1,507,100 times
Reputation: 445

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
Basically everything North of Temple. Strawberry Mansion, Fairhill, Hartranft, North Central and Glenwood.
Ah!, right. Of course. Not so interesting then!

Interesting how there has only been 6 murders in the last 17 days. Lower than some of the colder months!

 
Old 07-19-2013, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,166 posts, read 1,507,100 times
Reputation: 445
Well... folks... here we are again, as the year is getting closer to the end, to find out whether those numbers I predicted back in January were on target for the 2013 year. As of midnight of July 19, 2013 there have been 136 murders. At this rate, we will end up with 249/250 murders. In my original analysis I predicted a worse case scenario of 279 and a probable number of 240-260. Many people continued to contend that this would be wrong, and that we would surely end up with 300+. Despite this being so, it seems that so far I have been correct in my analysis. I suppose the ability to do simple math and understand data trends triumphs 50+ years of mindless experience. Controlling for rape, it looks like we will be seeing an 8% decrease in crime, which may end up greater if crime decreases in cold temperature as many on this board love to trumpet.

Overall, the state of Philadelphia is still a sad one, but nevertheless, at least apparent progress is being made. It is good to see aggravated assault with a gun falling 10% after falling last year as well. There also has been a 21% decrease in gun violence over the last month compared the previous month. I suppose it is easier to hit your target without all that sweat in your eyes.
 
Old 07-19-2013, 08:38 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 21,786,952 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnote11 View Post
O There also has been a 21% decrease in gun violence over the last month compared the previous month. I suppose it is easier to hit your target without all that sweat in your eyes.
Actually its harder to hit your target holding the firearm horizontally
 
Old 07-19-2013, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,166 posts, read 1,507,100 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankgn87 View Post
Actually its harder to hit your target holding the firearm horizontally
Well, that isn't necessarily true. There are purposes for horizontal shooting, after all. If anything, I would blame it on lack of form, rather than fantastical stereotypes.
 
Old 07-20-2013, 02:01 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,041 posts, read 1,513,413 times
Reputation: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin19119 View Post
Bull ! you can show me all the studies you want. I worked in North Philly for over 23 yrs. Thugs are not hanging out on the corner as much when it`s freezing out. As soon as the warm weather hits, all hell breaks out. I know people who hate summer because they know the punks will be out in full force starting trouble.
Exactly. Look at all the shootings and murders we've had during this recent heat wave.
 
Old 07-21-2013, 08:16 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 21,786,952 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnote11 View Post
Well, that isn't necessarily true. There are purposes for horizontal shooting, after all. If anything, I would blame it on lack of form, rather than fantastical stereotypes.

Wrong. I can tell you know nothing about target shooting.. You need eye/barrel/sights alignment to properly shoot a gun accurately. Otherwise its just a shoot n hope..

The reason the thugs shoot sideways is that they are clueless and think it looks cool. Much like pants below their a$$es.
 
Old 07-21-2013, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,166 posts, read 1,507,100 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankgn87 View Post
Wrong. I can tell you know nothing about target shooting.. You need eye/barrel/sights alignment to properly shoot a gun accurately. Otherwise its just a shoot n hope..

The reason the thugs shoot sideways is that they are clueless and think it looks cool. Much like pants below their a$$es.
I said there is a purpose to horizontal shooting in some instances. This is a true statement. For instance...

"The side grip found some use with early 20th century submachineguns, such as the Thompson M1 or the M3 "grease gun". Because their heavy recoil made them tend to climb when fired in full automatic mode, soldiers would hold them sideways so that the bullets would spread in a horizontal rather than vertical arc, hitting more targets."

"Law enforcement officers will sometimes use the side grip to shoot while holding a riot shield or ballistic shield with their other hand. Because the shield limits the field of view, lifting and tilting the gun may make the sights more visible under these circumstances. Some shooters with issues of ocular dominance will tilt the gun at a 15 to 45 degree angle in order to take advantage of their better eye; the gun held in the left hand and the sights aligned to the right eye, for example."

Therefore, sometimes it actually makes it easier to do such while firing a firearm.

Nowhere did I say that horizontal shooting was useful for accurately hitting a target in the case of the average "thug". I said that I think the reason they aren't hitting their target has more to do with improper form and less to do with stereotypes (horizontal shooting). Don't believe everything you see in the movies, Frank. Many "thugs" don't shoot horizontal; they just don't know how to shoot in general.

How should I put this...

Wrong. I can tell you don't know a lot about reading comprehension... and guns in general for that matter.
 
Old 07-21-2013, 10:13 PM
 
Location: West Cedar Park, Philadelphia
1,225 posts, read 2,554,403 times
Reputation: 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnote11 View Post
I said there is a purpose to horizontal shooting in some instances. This is a true statement. For instance...

"The side grip found some use with early 20th century submachineguns, such as the Thompson M1 or the M3 "grease gun". Because their heavy recoil made them tend to climb when fired in full automatic mode, soldiers would hold them sideways so that the bullets would spread in a horizontal rather than vertical arc, hitting more targets."

"Law enforcement officers will sometimes use the side grip to shoot while holding a riot shield or ballistic shield with their other hand. Because the shield limits the field of view, lifting and tilting the gun may make the sights more visible under these circumstances. Some shooters with issues of ocular dominance will tilt the gun at a 15 to 45 degree angle in order to take advantage of their better eye; the gun held in the left hand and the sights aligned to the right eye, for example."

Therefore, sometimes it actually makes it easier to do such while firing a firearm.

Nowhere did I say that horizontal shooting was useful for accurately hitting a target in the case of the average "thug". I said that I think the reason they aren't hitting their target has more to do with improper form and less to do with stereotypes (horizontal shooting). Don't believe everything you see in the movies, Frank. Many "thugs" don't shoot horizontal; they just don't know how to shoot in general.

How should I put this...

Wrong. I can tell you don't know a lot about reading comprehension... and guns in general for that matter.
I highly doubt any of these are reasons for the sideways grip the stereotypical gun toting thug is portrayed as using though. Unless they've all got one bad eye and are using submachine guns while carrying riot shields that is.
 
Old 07-21-2013, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,166 posts, read 1,507,100 times
Reputation: 445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius Pontmercy View Post
I highly doubt any of these are reasons for the sideways grip the stereotypical gun toting thug is portrayed as using though. Unless they've all got one bad eye and are using submachine guns while carrying riot shields that is.
Well... good thing I never made mention of side grip shooting and "thugs" in conjunction. I obviously wrote in the very post that you quoted that this was so and that the reason "thugs" are such bad shooters is because they have bad form and don't know how to shoot. What I was contesting was Frank's statement that horizontal shooting NEVER enables one in any situation to better hit a target, which I called out as wrong, and he in turn told me I was indeed wrong. My rebuttal was proof that what I stated was true. It has nothing to do with "thugs", as the discussion was merely on the merit of side grip shooting in enabling you to hit a target as it applies to any given shooter in the entirety of the world. Yes? But I give you praise for the delightfully funny image you've conjured up. For the given purposes of the average "thug"--one usually lacking riot shield, bereft of a submachine gun, and typically not down one useful eye-- it would indeed not be efficient nor beneficial to adopt a "side grip" style of shooting if their intent was to actually hit their target. We can all agree on that but, again, that was not what this discussion was about.

To sum up:

Claim: For any shooter at any given moment on this Earth, traditional form shooting (i.e. what is practiced at the shooting ranges) always enables one to hit a target under any situation better than side grip/horizontal "form".
Rebuttal: There are situations where a given shooter does have a better chance of hitting said target given the following factors, of which I then listed.
Conclusion: Because there are situations at some moment for a shooter to increase his ability to hit a target given the above factors, it is to be said that the claim is therefore false

Honestly, it was just a minor observation where I stated briefly that what he stated wasn't absolutely true. It really did not need to sprawl into such an extensive discussion. In the end, Frank's initial statement wasn't even necessarily given in the form of an absolute, only his response later implied it. It really is a worthless discussion, so I venture to an extreme and say that we drop it now.

Last edited by Cnote11; 07-21-2013 at 11:52 PM..
 
Old 07-22-2013, 08:16 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 21,786,952 times
Reputation: 2353
NONE of those reasons the thugs horizontal shoot and you know it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cnote11 View Post
I said there is a purpose to horizontal shooting in some instances. This is a true statement. For instance...

"The side grip found some use with early 20th century submachineguns, such as the Thompson M1 or the M3 "grease gun". Because their heavy recoil made them tend to climb when fired in full automatic mode, soldiers would hold them sideways so that the bullets would spread in a horizontal rather than vertical arc, hitting more targets."

"Law enforcement officers will sometimes use the side grip to shoot while holding a riot shield or ballistic shield with their other hand. Because the shield limits the field of view, lifting and tilting the gun may make the sights more visible under these circumstances. Some shooters with issues of ocular dominance will tilt the gun at a 15 to 45 degree angle in order to take advantage of their better eye; the gun held in the left hand and the sights aligned to the right eye, for example."

Therefore, sometimes it actually makes it easier to do such while firing a firearm.

Nowhere did I say that horizontal shooting was useful for accurately hitting a target in the case of the average "thug". I said that I think the reason they aren't hitting their target has more to do with improper form and less to do with stereotypes (horizontal shooting). Don't believe everything you see in the movies, Frank. Many "thugs" don't shoot horizontal; they just don't know how to shoot in general.

How should I put this...

Wrong. I can tell you don't know a lot about reading comprehension... and guns in general for that matter.
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