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The problem is that too many whites then follow this logical chain:
"younger Black males commit the bulk of these crimes, therefore all younger Black males are automatically suspect."
And conversely, that then leads them to ignore the young white males who cause worse trouble, like that guy who shot up an elementary school in Texas (we now know from the videotapes that the cops dealt with him far more gingerly than they often do Black suspects — and those cops were armed to boot).
We need a little more nuance than that in both situations. If a young Black male is not acting in a way that might arouse suspicion — and lots of young Black men don't act in such a way — there's no real need to hassle them, and where we know a young white man is in a place where he clearly intends harm, then the authorities need to go after him with force as soon as they get there.
I don't disagree that that is faulty logic (all or nothing). Although I would contend that you are using hyperbole to categorize white people thinking all black teens are dangerous as an outcome. Regardless, the outcome is damaging to young black males. However, you are not going to unconvinced people. Let's not forget that black people are just as racist as everyone else. You won't convince anybody to be more concerned about a young group of black teens present on a city street in an afternoon after school than you will a group of white teens. That is because there are many more black teens committing violent crimes in the city than white teens.
I know you won't like that, but conversely, I am going to be a lot more concerned about a strangely acting white male at a festival, a mall, a place of worship, or any place that has a significant number of people. That's because there are many more mass murderers in high-profile cases than there are black murderers.
This is not a tricky thing. When people identify something or someone that is more dangerous than other average things or people, they become more aware and fearful of that thing or person. And our politicians can kick it to the curb as it relates to use in law enforcement tactics, but they are also taking a very important and effective tool that is a basic human instinct to the curb along with it. Good luck with that.
https://6abc.com/homicide-shooting-d...rive/12055483/
Like most everyone here, I am so f***ing over it. I used to jog on Kelly Drive all of the time. Early morning runs are the best. That section of Kelly Drive always sketches me out the most, but I wouldn't expect this at 6:00 AM.
I don't know if it was targeted. Regardless, it's disgusting. I feel such a sense of urgency in getting this city safer. Gun violence and reckless driving are ravaging innocent Philadelphians. I really love this city. I truly think that at its heart, Philadelphia is one of America's coolest and most distinctly flavorful cities. But I am feeling so burnt out wondering what I can do safely, and what I now need to avoid, to which I previously wouldn't have given a second thought.
Left-of-center people need to make amends with our city's law enforcement and acknowledge that we NEED an overhaul of public safety measures to turn things around immediately. Right-of-center people need acknowledge this will be but one piece of a larger puzzle to sustain a reduction in violent crime. We're all in this together.
Can't +1 you again, so doing it publicly here.
Mayor Ed Rendell used this metaphor to describe the municipal government he took over after it went into all but bankruptcy under a chain of mayors starting with Frank Rizzo and ending with Wilson Goode:
He said it was like treating a patient who had been brought into the ER with cancer and a gunshot wound.
You needed to treat the gunshot wound right away, but treating the cancer was just as important.
That's exactly the situation we face with public safety right now. Sure, I tend to emphasize the prevention in my posts, but that's because I perceive the people advocating swift and certain punishment as ignoring that piece of the jigsaw puzzle completely. That would be like treating the gunshot wound while allowing the cancer to metastasize unchecked.
The reason I wave that ProPublica article in front of people is that it demonstrated that communities themselves had created a network of activities and organizations that tried to deal with the cancer and succeded to a greater extent than most of us know because they flew under the media radar. The problem is, they were dealing with young men who didn't have the necessary reinforcement from other influencers in their lives, so when all that came to a halt after the COVID lockdowns, they found themselves like Wile E. Coyote in those Road Runner cartoons — suddenly suspended in mid-air with nothing solid beneath them. And they then reverted to the norm. While we're pursuing the miscreants, we need to rebuild those networks — at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp
Great post, but one note. I don't think its suburban progressives calling for far left approaches. From my experience it's overwhelmingly younger white people in Fishtown, Point Breeze, Grays Ferry, etc., that feel (for some reason) it's their duty to support these bogus practices. In their mind they are doing good for black and brown inner city communities, but I see it is as hurting them more, and actually going against what many want which is more police involvement BUT ALSO police/community relations. (that is my white perspective, so maybe I am incorrect).
I don't think you are, Chris.
The Woke may talk about getting rid of the police, but the residents of the affected neighborhoods don't indulge in that rhetoric. However, while they do want police protection, they want police who deal with them as equals rather than suspects or collaborators (and please don't throw "stop snitching" in my face; that wasn't a movement that enjoyed majority support in Black neighborhoods). The Camden experience, where a police department was dissolved and replaced with a completely new one that made community relations its first priority, should demonstrate the truth of what you write here. (And I will acknowledge that I have seen posts from some of the more conservative folks on this board that indicate that they too do understand this; with them, the argument is merely over whether we're doing enough enforcement.)
And then you prove your own point with this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp
Quick side story, in that bogus Facebook group I often reference, a young white woman from Portland, Or was going off about this topic and black posters were literally telling her she is wrong, and she would not budge. Her logic, was "I knew a black person in Portland and they don't like police." I was like, WTF?, this is part of the problem...
Is that group the Planning group? I'm a moderator. Guess I don't spend enough time there. Maybe I need to wade into the waters there, but I spend way too much time here as it is.
Quote:
Yes to the bold. Another thing that boggles my mind, did people really think the outcome of these progressive approaches would work?
Back to my point, we are unstable creatures, and the pendulum swings from one extreme to another. We need to be at center. And if anything, we need a temporary crackdown, things are out of control, there is no saying otherwise.
Are you aware of just how vitriolic so many rural folks are towards Philadelphia, even Philadelphians? It's like a mental illness how obsessively disparaging people are, and you're remiss not to acknowledge that. Let's forego the crocodile tears on this one.
The fact of the matter is Philadelphia is hamstrung in a number of ways by statewide policies. Philly's current crime trends and absurd level of gun violence is essentially unmatched anywhere in the state on a per capita level and certainly raw numbers. So why are we pretending that policies should be uniform statewide?
You can blame politicians for inaction, for sure, but not for causing crime. That's where blame becomes bitterness.
For the record, I'm not opposed to stop-and-frisk, presuming it's done in a legitimate and "reasonable cause" type of fashion. As with anything, there just have to be checks-and-balances.
Vitriolic so many rural folks are towner Philadelphia/Philadelphians? You mean that age old division between rural (and suburban) folks that live outside the ''big city"? Please, nothing new....and yet you engage in it as well..you sound like this is something new...crocodile tears? lol.
Maybe the rural folks don't like Philly's blighted areas; unlike you who, at least as you travel by or thru our blighted areas ''likes'' it for some reason (as you stated in other thread). You like blight areas as long as you don't live in them no doubt, for those living there, oh well...you just like seeing blight...wtf?
Well, Philly can opt out of enforcing Federal law, so want State as well? Philly actually is circumventing uniform state laws in favor of tolerating criminal and negligent behaviour. For example, how about repealing the Driver Equity Bill or the ''can't pursue illegal ATVs''...and seize them per state law? These both are in violation of state law and both put lives at risk. This is not politicians being blamed for ''inaction'' but actually taking action to our detriment and favoring criminal and negligent acts.
Sure pols with bad policies can contribute to an increase in crime...look at Philly for starters. Actually, I would consider Krasner in the ''causing crime'' category.
Stop and frisk is legal; again, it was ended only because the numbers of stopped and frisked skewed high for blacks given their proportion to the city population. Not because of ''no probable cause''...you'll always see a sidebar mention of ''and some cases of questionable or lack of probable cause'' to get that in there. so it ended and homicides began climbing again, enter Kenney and Krasner (pols) and the 2020 election and well...
Imagine, in a city like Philly there was a disparate race result in stop-n-frisks? What do you think that's
rooted in?
What stop-n-frisk ''checks and balances'' are you suggesting?
I dont disagree with you at all, My statements werent to imply that all young black males are criminals, far from it. But people on this thread have been talking about pushing for stop and frisk etc- based on the description of most of the people doing violent crimes in Philly theres simply no way you can bring back stop and frisk type policing and ignore what the descriptions are of most of Phillys violent criminals. No win situation
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
The problem is that too many whites then follow this logical chain:
"younger Black males commit the bulk of these crimes, therefore all younger Black males are automatically suspect."
And conversely, that then leads them to ignore the young white males who cause worse trouble, like that guy who shot up an elementary school in Texas (we now know from the videotapes that the cops dealt with him far more gingerly than they often do Black suspects — and those cops were armed to boot).
We need a little more nuance than that in both situations. If a young Black male is not acting in a way that might arouse suspicion — and lots of young Black men don't act in such a way — there's no real need to hassle them, and where we know a young white man is in a place where he clearly intends harm, then the authorities need to go after him with force as soon as they get there.
The problem is that too many whites then follow this logical chain:
"younger Black males commit the bulk of these crimes, therefore all younger Black males are automatically suspect."
And conversely, that then leads them to ignore the young white males who cause worse trouble, like that guy who shot up an elementary school in Texas (we now know from the videotapes that the cops dealt with him far more gingerly than they often do Black suspects — and those cops were armed to boot).
We need a little more nuance than that in both situations. If a young Black male is not acting in a way that might arouse suspicion — and lots of young Black men don't act in such a way — there's no real need to hassle them, and where we know a young white man is in a place where he clearly intends harm, then the authorities need to go after him with force as soon as they get there.
Would or do only ''whites'' think this way though? Asians, hispanics/brown, and black people wouldn't or don't think this way?
What Texas elementary school are you referring to? Given that you're mentioning ''the ''young white male'', it certainly can't be the recent Uvalde incident; the shooter there was Salvador Ramos, though young, hardly a ''white male''.
If anything, the ''white mass shooter'' as a counter to the mass shootings and killings going on in ''urban cities'' is debunked. Unfortunately, the ''mass shooter'' (the school, mall, etc shooters) problem has become racially diverse. Philly had yet another mass shooting this past weekend.
I don't think you will find anyone posting on this board who thinks that we shouldn't reinstate stop-and-frisk.
Just (as Duderino said) deploy it where there's probable cause rather than indiscriminately.
The unfortunate part, however, is that there will be some profiling involved, no matter how careful the cops are in applying it. In this case, it can't be avoided. You don't know whether those boisterous teens walking down the street will turn out to have beef and pull out their guns, as happened on Chelten Avenue one afternoon right after such a bunch passed by me.
Why was stop and frisk stopped in the 1st place when, like NYC, Philly was making excellent strides in reducing its homicide numbers?
Suddenly lefties want stop and frisk back in 2022...smh.
Stop and Frisk is the real Black Lives Matter movement though; not the faux born from a lie, perpetuating lies, sit down meetings in Obama's White House, white and corporate guilt $$ shakedown crew.
Stop and Frisk saved 10,000s of black lives by this point just in NYC.
S&F isn't coming back though, there's no way cops can and will be able to stop and frisk in 2022 due to racial politics, the post-Obama racial divisions, the white progressive outrage.
Even with probable cause, cops are limited in traffic stops and the Einstein concept of ''stop doing that'' is in play here as well (cops are supposed to give someone a chance to ''stop doing that'' before an encounter-the list of ''stop doing that'' is interesting.
So now we have people wanting S&F back as the city moves to reduce black-cop encounters and not because of a lack of probable cause but to create equality based on population %.
You've also stated before that your friend was too subservient during a traffic stop with a cop; most people would find that logical as a way of getting out of a traffic violation...you claimed it was rooted in slavery...seriously? Shouldn't logic dictate to be polite and cooperative in such an encounter instead of the opposite, which can have, obviously, a large range of outcomes? Unless of course there's something else going on with the driver....
Why was stop and frisk stopped in the 1st place when, like NYC, Philly was making excellent strides in reducing its homicide numbers?
Suddenly lefties want stop and frisk back in 2022...smh.
Stop and Frisk is the real Black Lives Matter movement though; not the faux born from a lie, perpetuating lies, sit down meetings in Obama's White House, white and corporate guilt $$ shakedown crew.
Stop and Frisk saved 10,000s of black lives by this point just in NYC.
S&F isn't coming back though, there's no way cops can and will be able to stop and frisk in 2022 due to racial politics, the post-Obama racial divisions, the white progressive outrage.
Even with probable cause, cops are limited in traffic stops and the Einstein concept of ''stop doing that'' is in play here as well (cops are supposed to give someone a chance to ''stop doing that'' before an encounter-the list of ''stop doing that'' is interesting.
So now we have people wanting S&F back as the city moves to reduce black-cop encounters and not because of a lack of probable cause but to create equality based on population %.
You've also stated before that your friend was too subservient during a traffic stop with a cop; most people would find that logical as a way of getting out of a traffic violation...you claimed it was rooted in slavery...seriously? Shouldn't logic dictate to be polite and cooperative in such an encounter instead of the opposite, which can have, obviously, a large range of outcomes? Unless of course there's something else going on with the driver....
Did I really say "too subservient"? I don't believe that was the phrasing I used.
I do remember the fellow saying as we drove off, however, that he learned that this was the way to avoid needlessly escalating the situation because of the way cops behave.
I mean, I'm certainly polite when a police officer stops me while driving, and it's worked every time (I got off with a warning once after I ran a stop sign I didn't notice because it was partly covered by trees. The first thing the officer asked me is "Do you know what you just did?")
Did I really say "too subservient"? I don't believe that was the phrasing I used.
I do remember the fellow saying as we drove off, however, that he learned that this was the way to avoidneedlessly escalating the situation because of the way cops behave.
I mean, I'm certainly polite when a police officer stops me while driving, and it's worked every time (I got off with a warning once after I ran a stop sign I didn't notice because it was partly covered by trees. The first thing the officer asked me is "Do you know what you just did?")
How about including ''needlessly escalating the situation because of the drivers (etc) behave'' as well?
However you phrased the prior post, you rooted it in ''slavery''. Your take on it was that it was way too overboard in politeness because of some slavery legacy.
Regardless, point is, in a traffic stop or at a minimum, during an initial encounter, be polite and cooperative with cops and this applies regardless of race.
Problem is with today's environment, all cops have been demonized such that many immediately ''cop'' a defiant attitude.
Good luck with implementing Stop and Frisk in 2022.
''Man who torched state police car during Philly’s racial injustice protests sentenced to less than 1 year
Ayoub Tabri, 25, of Arlington, Va., has already spent nearly two years behind bars since his October 2020 arrest.''
Inquirer story...I recall a lot of blame for the violence that weekend being placed on ''right wing'' infiltrators etc. and I do recall speaking with more than a few people from out of town working petition, fund raising tables, and taking part in the war on police here etc...hmm
The whole ''spontaneous peoples' uprising'' was very well planned that weekend into the summer. This was the beginning of ''social unrest summer'' and ''war on police departments" (PPD included) for the election; the first weekend also gave us the Floyd Lot on Walnut Street.
Here we have a 25 year old green card holder citizen of Morocco (ungrateful dude who has been here since he was 6) in town to meet up with the ''skateboarding community'' (lol) who somehow ended up tossing a flare into a state police squad car as a mob tried to enter I-676 (remember the cop scandal when they subsequently tear gassed middle aged losers who eventually did enter 676 for good old George Floyd? lol).
This non-citizen was part of group that included a flare thrower who ignited a state trooper's uniform that also burned his hand.
This guy caught a break because a stiffer sentence would have automatically triggered deportation...having no one in Morocco or allegedly not speaking the language, this Fed judge gave him a break...pretty lucky for someone who thinks he lives in systemically racist and the most oppressive country also known as the United States of America; the same racist countrry that allowed his family in DC to operate their own successful restaurant business and enjoy life in America. The real sentence this guy deserved would have brought in ICE...a very unpopular thing in Philly.
Reminds of the twit busted for torching a PPD squad car at city hall....34 year old black female business owner smart of enough to be masked to conceal her identity but dumb enough to not cover her distinctive arm tattoos that subsequently ID'd her lol...another one wanting to tear down capitalism as she operates her own business in it...wft? lol
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