Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If you concede that teens in this city are driving the VAST majority of shootings and you concede that the VAST majority are identified in the same way and you concede that gun ownership - illegal or otherwise - is rampant in this group.....
....then it's safe to say that "stop and frisk" would be wildly successful in getting guns out of people's hands. It's way too controversial to ever be considered these days but it comes down to how serious you are about stopping would-be criminals. Sure, it sucks if you're an innocent, upstanding person just going about your business and the cops ask to pat you down because you fit a description. But I think it's a small price to pay for the alleviation of a pandemic. If 2 years ago, you were walking through a grocery store without a mask, security would target you. Same thing.
Would you rather have the cops knock on your door informing you that kid was shot or have you kid come home and tell you you were racially profiled? Either isn't awesome but one is vastly better than the other. I honestly don't know how a mother could demand justice if their kid was profiled (and for the record, I'm talking about ANY teen in this town) and patted down if the goal of that initiative was to protect them from far worse.
If you concede that teens in this city are driving the VAST majority of shootings and you concede that the VAST majority are identified in the same way and you concede that gun ownership - illegal or otherwise - is rampant in this group.....
....then it's safe to say that "stop and frisk" would be wildly successful in getting guns out of people's hands. It's way too controversial to ever be considered these days but it comes down to how serious you are about stopping would-be criminals. Sure, it sucks if you're an innocent, upstanding person just going about your business and the cops ask to pat you down because you fit a description. But I think it's a small price to pay for the alleviation of a pandemic. If 2 years ago, you were walking through a grocery store without a mask, security would target you. Same thing.
Would you rather have the cops knock on your door informing you that kid was shot or have you kid come home and tell you you were racially profiled? Either isn't awesome but one is vastly better than the other. I honestly don't know how a mother could demand justice if their kid was profiled (and for the record, I'm talking about ANY teen in this town) and patted down if the goal of that initiative was to protect them from far worse.
Now let me have it....
Reddog, are you Black or Latino? I think it's easier to make such a suggestion if one is not part of either demographic.
Reddog, are you Black or Latino? I think it's easier to make such a suggestion if one is not part of either demographic.
I've lost a child. Imagine never being able to see your son again and nothing like an indignity of having someone pat down your kid compares. Many of my friends have children would be profiled. Having a choice between being profiled or gunned down, the choice is easy.
I never said that specific ethnicities should be s&f'd. If you're a teen, you're eligible. Please don't paint me as a racist. It's simply not true.
It comes down to whether you are serious about addressing the problem. Chemo is the worst poison imaginable. People take it willingly to get a result.
Maybe, but if you drilled down into one of the links early on in the article, you should find something that should give all of you get-tough types pause:
According to a study by the center-left Democratic group Third Way, murder rates are actually higher in red states than blue ones, and some of the highest murder rates are in cities with Republican mayors (Oklahoma's two biggest cities, Oklahoma City and Tulsa, fall into this category; the violent crime rate in Tulsa in 2020 was 11.02 per 1,000 residents, compared to 9.82 in Philadelphia Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site
Seems to me like the whole get-tough approach may well be no more effective than the ounce-of-prevention one — or maybe even less so, given what's happened here since that alternatives-to-violence ecosystem ProPublica described went poof at the onset of the pandemic.
Would you at least be willing to allow that perhaps a both/and rather than an either/or approach might be best? And that just because Krasner has swung the pendulum too far in the opposite direction doesn't mean he has no point about police conduct?
What is a ''get tough type"?
Who are the violent criminals in Oklahoma City & Tulsa?
Did either of these cities see a homicide increase of 40% from 2019-2020? Or a 58% homicide rise 2019-2021? Or, a 129% homicide increase from 2014-2021?
If we want to look at a national level, being 6% of the population, black males commit about 52% of violent crime; 2% of this population, ages 16-21 commit about 42% of total homicides in the U.S.
So are get tough or get lenient policies meaningless perhaps until the internal cultural and community issues are discussed (or even allowed to be mentioned)?
The ProPublica article, while interesting, is not reliable as ''proof'' that the pandemic is to blame when homicides increased 45% from 2014-2019. Don't recall any mention of the war waged on police departments across the country for Biden's election or the Biden-Harris campaign against police in favor of street criminals. Short-term political gain for the lost black lives later.
Why are you asking me that police conduct shouldn't be addressed? It's akin to upthread a bit when adolescent responses were leveled at me that somehow I believe ''white nationalist/racist'' violence was OK.
Krasner's #1 policy is to go after cops, innocent or otherwise. Krasner was just shut down by the PA Supreme Court for lying in a court case with a PPD member.
Gone too far? Krasner made a living suing the PPD; now he's crusading against the PPD as the top law enforcement officer. We all know his real political agenda even though most here won't admit it; the black lives lost are just part of the casualties to reach his ''criminal reform'' goals.
But, Philly voted overwhelmingly for Krasner in Nov '21. This is what the citizens want.
Can anyone define ''criminal reform'' and its goals now that we're in Krasner's 2nd term of it?
If you concede that teens in this city are driving the VAST majority of shootings and you concede that the VAST majority are identified in the same way and you concede that gun ownership - illegal or otherwise - is rampant in this group.....
....then it's safe to say that "stop and frisk" would be wildly successful in getting guns out of people's hands. It's way too controversial to ever be considered these days but it comes down to how serious you are about stopping would-be criminals. Sure, it sucks if you're an innocent, upstanding person just going about your business and the cops ask to pat you down because you fit a description. But I think it's a small price to pay for the alleviation of a pandemic. If 2 years ago, you were walking through a grocery store without a mask, security would target you. Same thing.
Would you rather have the cops knock on your door informing you that kid was shot or have you kid come home and tell you you were racially profiled? Either isn't awesome but one is vastly better than the other. I honestly don't know how a mother could demand justice if their kid was profiled (and for the record, I'm talking about ANY teen in this town) and patted down if the goal of that initiative was to protect them from far worse.
Now let me have it....
Here's an off the wall idea: how about parents taking guns away from their kids when they come home with them?
This is so disgusting, and I am so sad for the families of Roxborough High School. I live nearby, and I jog/walk around the high school often. These gunman are absolute cowards preying on unsuspecting youth with no defense.
This city NEEDS to throw everything it's got at ending this crime wave. These kids' lives matter too much for this travesty to go on.
From the recent Atlantic interview with Krasner justifying not arresting or prosecuting folks carrying illegal firearms because ''It’s counterproductive to prioritize that more than solving gun violence. The reality is that if you want to stop gun violence, you should pursue gun violence."
No reason for stop & frisk...also known as ''dead in its tracks''...not gonna happen ever with Little Larry in charge.
So Krasner, with a Stanford law degree, is not arresting and, of course, not prosecuting people carrying illegal firearms thereby preventing future gun violence...the priority only after there is gun violence; blames cops among other things for not ''solving'' gun violence crimes and claims 90% convictions in his vastly diminished criminal docket.
Not surprising though when our DA plays his politically driven racial agenda...at the cost of black lives; doesn't care in reality as these types consider them as collateral fallout, despite his tears shed on TV, to reach their political ends.
Reddog, are you Black or Latino? I think it's easier to make such a suggestion if one is not part of either demographic.
This is the reason Stop & Frisk is not coming back, making illegal gun possession arrest will skew higher for black residents (black males) compared to population demographic % (like violent crime here generally and homicides in particular) and has nothing to do with a lack of probable cause:
''It’s counterproductive to prioritize that more than solving gun violence. The reality is that if you want to stop gun violence, you should pursue gun violence."
Will not arrest or prosecute illegal possession of guns in Philly. Why not?
Please let's stop the hurt feelings cuz someone was doing something to warrant a police stop...and frisk....happened to me years ago when I was waiting for a friend at her at night car on Spruce Street...had an out of state license...frisked...this was the era when the city was reducing homicides/crime generally.
I didn't cry, have hurt feelings, file complaints, get a lawyer to sue etc. Cop was doing his job...effectively. I didn't hassle the cop, get nasty or otherwise be an a-hole.
Gotta say though at a local Target, a few young kids (10-12 y.o.) were having it out with security and PPD in an aisle...and I mean these kids were unbelievable the way they responded to these security/cop officers...let's keep messaging young black kids that cops are out hunting them for no reason and America's systemic racist system is oppressing them even though little/young kids are roaming around a Target shoplifting with no adult supervision...no American knows what oppression is, at least currently.
I've lost a child. Imagine never being able to see your son again and nothing like an indignity of having someone pat down your kid compares. Many of my friends have children would be profiled. Having a choice between being profiled or gunned down, the choice is easy.
I'm very sorry that you lost your son, especially if it was due to violence in this city.
Quote:
I never said that specific ethnicities should be s&f'd. If you're a teen, you're eligible. Please don't paint me as a racist. It's simply not true.
I did not believe you were specifying certain races nor did I think you intended to be racist. My point was that if one's own children were unlikely to be profiled, that you haven't had to give the The Talk about how cops may already assume you are guilty before proven innocent, sometimes with deadly consequences, then it is easier to offer stop-and-frisk as a suggestion.
Quote:
It comes down to whether you are serious about addressing the problem. Chemo is the worst poison imaginable. People take it willingly to get a result.
I don't believe one can compare a course of action that would include the potential psychological scarring of innocent teenagers and young adults to a last resort decision to save someone's life.
Ah, yes, dismissed because you're not in a defined ''victim'' group.
Again, stop & frisk was not ended due to a lack of probable cause.
Lots of people, all races, were stopped & frisked when that effective policy was in effect here and elsewhere.
Full disclosure: I was out of town when stop-and-frisk was enforced here. However, I'm aware of what happened up the road in New York and, without taking this too far off-topic geographically, statistics showed that Black and Latino men were disproportionately targeted there. I would be surprised if that were much different here in Philadelphia.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
