How long will the population trend continue in Philadelpha? (Philadelphia: section 8, crime rate)

[imthrowed94]

In 1950 Philadelphia had a population of over two million people now it's over 1.4 million.right now. This has been happening for years now first Houston passed the city up in the 80's and now Phoenix has with the numbers being 1.5 million. Now another city is on Philly's hills which is San Antonio with thier numbers being anywhere between 1.2 to 1.3 million right now. I was thinking that what happened to Philly is what happened to alot of old northwest and mid west cities which is development of suburbia which started in the 50's and I think that it took alot of white people out of these cities like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Cleveland, Philly and a few others. The interesting thing about Phoenix and San Antonio they been able to pass up alot of the cities i name without a big black population but then alot of hispanics live in both of those places. But anyway I wrote this as something just to talk about.

[Icy Tea]

Philly lost population to the suburbs( Pa and NJ) beginning in the 1950s and increasing heavily in the 1960s and 70s. The trend is continuing with people moving farther west as the former suburbs become built up and taxes increase. The population loss has almost stopped as foreign immigrants move into Philly along with a smaller number of the more affluent into center city. This balances the middle class families who are still leaving due to school issues and crime. But Pa's population is aging and only slowly increasing and Philly isn't going to buck this trend, Only a few counties are experiencing decent growth.
Atlanta has experienced unchecked growth and may experience even faster implosion if their water needs aren't met. This could be the same with many southwestern cities.

[Marodi]

Originally Posted by imthrowed94

In 1950 Philadelphia had a population of over two million people now it's over 1.4 million.right now. This has been happening for years now first Houston passed the city up in the 80's and now Phoenix has with the numbers being 1.5 million. Now another city is on Philly's hills which is San Antonio with thier numbers being anywhere between 1.2 to 1.3 million right now. I was thinking that what happened to Philly is what happened to alot of old northwest and mid west cities which is development of suburbia which started in the 50's and I think that it took alot of white people out of these cities like Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore, Cleveland, Philly and a few others. The interesting thing about Phoenix and San Antonio they been able to pass up alot of the cities i name without a big black population but then alot of hispanics live in both of those places. But anyway I wrote this as something just to talk about.

It's because PA dosen't have laws like newer states (by comparison) like arizona and texas and whatnot, because it's damn near impossible to merge two local entities (boroughs, townships, towns). Both entities have to vote in approval. Who would REALLY want to merge with philly?

[tablemtn]

Philly has a godawful urban violence problem that deters potential residents and investments. Two cops shot in separate incidents in one night, along with several civilians shot or killed? Come on, Philly. Clean up your act, and watch things improve. Stop being so violent. Ask yourselves, where does this violence actually get us? What good does it do for anyone?

[kyle19125]

Philly's population, according to the US Census, was down just 0.5% after the 2005/2006 count. It's projected by the next census in 2010, that it will be dead even. Thanks to the Center City/Old City/Northern Liberties/Fishtown boom the negative loss has been curtailed for the most part.

The exodus is occurring in the neighborhoods where people/cops are being shot...West Philadelphia/Oak Lane/North Philadelphia.
Sadly, the reality is in the grand scheme of urban growth, it's overlooked. Sure, everyone gets very nervous or outraged with the media attention given but that fades and soon everyone gets back to forgetting and the affluent areas will continue to grow and prosper.

The good news is there is an election on Tuesday for Mayor which will signal the end of a sad period in Philadelphia politics...the Street Administration. A predicted overhaul of the ineffective city government by a reformist will only improve things. Especially if the wage tax is removed or lowered considerably which has been a major issue for voters.

[Duderino]

I think everyone has provided some very important causes for Philadelphia's population loss. Philadelphia is the archetype for cities that saw its peak in the 1950's and decreased every decade thereafter due to the appeal of suburban living (i.e., White Flight). However, it's very evident that a new tide is turning in the city. The economy has low but stable growth, more firms are relocating downtown, and lots of new investments are being made in Philly that signal a new-found confidence -- which is starting to bring some affluence back into the city as well. The crime rate is definitely disheartening, but although the number of murders is about even with last year, violent crime is actually DOWN 6% from last year (lower rape, armed robbery, etc.). I expect that trend to continue, especially with what appears to be a promising new city government in the works.

Also, something else very important to note that people often don't consider when comparing older Northern cities to Sun Belt cities: the areas of many Sun Belt cities' limits are typically VERY high in terms of square mileage. Phoenix, Houston, and Los Angeles come to mind where the practice of annexing suburban areas is commonplace. For example, Philadelphia has only a quarter the land area of Phoenix (132 sq. mi. versus 515 sq. mi.), but it has only slightly fewer people in terms population (talk about sprawl). If you were to apply the same land area to Philadelphia as Phoenix, Philadelphia's population would be well over 2 million. Also, keep in mind how the lack of an urban core skews crime statistics. Because Philadelphia's land area is smaller, it is represented by disproportionately more "ghetto" areas than cities like Phoenix that are much more suburban in character. Thus, its crime rate would obviously calculate higher.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by tablemtn

Philly has a godawful urban violence problem that deters potential residents and investments. Two cops shot in separate incidents in one night, along with several civilians shot or killed? Come on, Philly. Clean up your act, and watch things improve. Stop being so violent. Ask yourselves, where does this violence actually get us? What good does it do for anyone?

What do you want your average citizen to do? I'd love to clean up Philadlephia but truth be told there isnt a thing I or anyone else can do about it. Its out of our hands.

When a certain sect of social service dependent population with absolutely no interest in family structure keep reproducing its going to cause massive chaos. As long as the government keeps paying poor minority mothers to have husbandless children they are going to keep doing it.

They need to what China does and pay poor women NOT To have children. Dont pay them to have 9 kids by 9 different fathers you are just making it impossible for our children and grandchildren.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by rainrock

What do you want your average citizen to do? I'd love to clean up Philadlephia but truth be told there isnt a thing I or anyone else can do about it. Its out of our hands.

You know, I used to feel the same way, but we can't keep using our disillusion from hearing about a new murder each night on the news as an excuse. I grew up in the suburbs and took my safe community for granted, but people who are born into a lifestyle of poverty and crime have nothing to take for granted, and committing crime is something they feel they need to do to get by. My point? We may feel like we are worlds apart from our struggling city counterparts, but they are literally dying for our help. Contacting local politicians to support funding for city renewal programs, joining a program that aids inner-city children, volunteering to clean up trash in a blighted neighborhood -- these are all things that contribute to a positive change. I'd be willing to bet that when people in inner-city neighborhoods saw more outsiders come into their neighborhoods to help out, they would have a renewed sense of civic pride, a lack of which is often at the root of crime. A little help from a lot of people goes tremendously far.

[rainrock]

And I used to be just the opposite of how I feel now. I was young, disillusioned and out to save the world. Then slowly but surely I got ground down and worn out by seeing the real world. Those are some noble suggestions that you make in helping the inner city but sadly- through my many experiences - at the end of the day its not going to end up to much.

If the billions of dollars from federal,state,local governments are powerless to crack the inner city riddle, then poor $chmucks like you or me certainly aren't up to task. We might be able to help a person here or there but for every person that wants help there are 100 who will unabashedly tell you to F-off. The hoods of north,west.sw Philly are almost 100% poverty stricken which is terrible in itself but to make matters worse one of the only lifelines these people have is to keep having more and more kids so the section 8 money,food stamps,welfare checks keep rolling in. So instead of 1 person being poor you have another 3 or 4 people to continue the cycle. Another 3 or 4 people who aren't raised properly.Another 3 or 4 people who dont have uncles or dads with connections to help them get jobs in the future.

Over 50% of the Philaldephia public high school students who enter 9th grade wont graduate. Of those dropouts almost all will end up in prison or dead, usually they will reproduce 4.3 times before jail or dying. The inner city black family cycle is probably the biggest calamity this country has ever had to deal with. 75% of black children are born with no father.

The complete implosion of the inner city black family structure, combined with peer pressure,violent rap music, and mass production of hand guns, unfortunately makes goodwill and volunterism a moot point.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by rainrock

The complete implosion of the inner city black family structure, combined with peer pressure,violent rap music, and mass production of hand guns, unfortunately makes goodwill and volunterism a moot point.

As usual, you make a lot of valid points. It's extremely challenging for many cities, particularly in Black communities, to overcome this ghetto mentality that idolizes violence and engenders cyclical poverty. I also agree that the most sustainable and effective change must come from within - people who live in inner-city communities have to take the biggest initiative if they want to create neighborhoods with a better quality-of-life. However, while I completely understand and respect your point of view, I just don't want to lose hope just yet. Luckily, there are civil servants living in Philadelphia who are working tirelessly to improve the conditions in the city's worst neighborhoods. I only hope that the new city administration can do something to significantly thwart violent crime so that you or I don't feel like helping out would be in vain.