Philadelphia's lack of highways and freeways.. . (Pittsburgh, Montgomeryville: where to live, costs, shop)

[stuckinsj]

Originally Posted by pman

it should not take 95 minutes to get to atlabtic city. trains were going 100 mph well over a century ago on that line. the problem with south jersey is to do anything right would be expensive but it really needs to be oart if the regional rail network. owing to politics everything is funneled into camden which isnt what people want.

100 years ago it took 60 minutes from Camden to AC by train (never went over 100 in regular service but came close to 90mph alot and still does). The rail line now has alot of single track segments (trains have to wait to pass), the bridge over the delaware is in extreme deterioration (falling apart and slower speeds), and there is congestion on the Northeast Corridor. NJT is based in Newark (all their employees are Metro NY) and has little knowledge of SJ. Can you imagine service to Cape May, Ocean City, and Wildwood back in the 1980's.


Just as bad as Septa eliminating West Chester, Newtown, Quakertown, Pottstown, and many other places over the last 40 years.

[pman]

perhaps it was not scheduled but rules were a bit looser. service to cape may would be wonderful, hate thay drive but love the town. its probably worse than what septa did simply becaise njt has been much better funded over that time period. corrisor congestion is certainly a problem but not like it is in north jersey. the main problem is the off corridor pieces.

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by OptimusPrime69

Why does Philly not have many freeways and highways like other cities? The Schuylkill Expressway is like a tiny little cattle shoot going out to KOP....and I476 is only 2 lanes each direction in DelCo..

why isn't there more of an extensive freeway system like other cities have?

I think you have to divide up cities into two groups. Cities that are the same population as they were a century ago (before cars) and cities that are now many times as large.

Population 1910
1,549,008 Philadelphia
670,585 Boston

Population 2012
1,547,607 Philadelphia
636,479 Boston

Boston tore down some very old houses in the 1950's so they could have a freeway that goes to center city. Now they are spent billions to try and bury it.

Manhattan is a little different because of the Hudson river. When you had to cross solely by ferry boat, it limited the amount of population growth on the New Jersey river bank. Only when the train tunnels and eventually the automobile tunnels and bridges opened as it possible to easily cross every day.

[pman]

even the bronx didnt recover from the crosstoen that destroyed their main commercial thoroughfare.

[stuckinsj]

Originally Posted by pman

even the bronx didnt recover from the crosstoen that destroyed their main commercial thoroughfare.

should have been a tunnel. Plus should not have built Bronx river freeway and many others should have been consolidated there. Health issues alone harm the Bronx.

[selhars]

Philly born and bred....so driving the city all my life....love my car, don't do SEPTA....

I've never thought of the city's highway system a being 'limited' -- for the most part the highways go where they need to in terms of routes....but they just weren't made to handle the VOLUME of traffic today. That's two different issues.

I live in far SW by the airport...and visit friends in Mount Airy and the Northeast. Does it suck at times that the only time feasible way to get to those places is Schuylkill Expressway/Lincoln -- or I-95? Yeah it does...especially since it seems they're ALWAYS working on SOME part of I95 -- but it is what it is....

Try cutting through the city....on regular streets to get damn near anywhere in this town! Taking 63rd street to get to City Line Avenue, or Woodland or Chester Aves to get to Univ. City --- ARRRGGHHH!

I'm sure other parts of the city -- The Northeast, Kensington, East Oak Lane, Roxborough -- have their travel-by-car issues in terms of getting from here to some place that's across the city.

The shape of the city and the street layouts have some effect on that.

I used to HATE Lincoln Drive...wasn't used to it and thought I'd get killed on it in some horrible head on accident --given there's no median. I'd take Walnut Lane over Ridge, then over to Germantown, over to Stenton...I did that TWO times and said to heck with that! Lincoln Drive is now my friend!

For the most part the highways are best....even with traffic...cutting across -- or up -- or over -- on city streets.....usually isn't worth it.

[stuckinsj]

Originally Posted by selhars

Philly born and bred....so driving the city all my life....love my car, don't do SEPTA....

i think thats part of the problem right there. Lived in Philly whole life, loves cars, and hates SEPTA.

[pman]

Originally Posted by stuckinsj

i think thats part of the problem right there. Lived in Philly whole life, loves cars, and hates SEPTA.

it took SEPTA a generation to recover from the service cutbacks and strikes in the 80's

[selhars]

i think thats part of the problem right there. Lived in Philly whole life, loves cars, and hates SEPTA.

What problems is that?
The OP was about a lack of highways/freeways.

I don't HATE public transit. Just don't like it for me. I like the convenience of traveling on MY schedule, not waiting in inclement weather for a bus/trolley/train. Not to mention I feel safer, and it's faster most times.

For people who like public transit more power to them.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by selhars

What problems is that?
The OP was about a lack of highways/freeways.

I don't HATE public transit. Just don't like it for me. I like the convenience of traveling on MY schedule, not waiting in inclement weather for a bus/trolley/train. Not to mention I feel safer, and it's faster most times.

For people who like public transit more power to them.

I don't mean to offer an answer for the other person. But as a transplant who chose to move to Philly based largely (almost entirely, actually) on its walkability and public transit I am constantly disappointed and (still) shocked at not necessarily how much people are into their cars, but how much is done to appease the car. It's like the developers and planners are not aware that a pretty significant portion of Philadelphians don't drive, that a lot of those who do drive don't drive everywhere, and that Philadelphia is the perfect example of a place where you could get away with building a proper urban landscape. The amount of parking garages and surface lots which exist within two blocks, one block, or even ON, Market Street and Broad Street not only deadens the areas around the garage (no matter how much crap retail you put on the ground floor), but devalues the investment the public makes in public transportation.