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Old 08-09-2013, 04:46 AM
 
177 posts, read 306,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mancat100 View Post
Would you say that Swarthmore is misplaced? Would it fit better if it was farther north or west?
No. You have to remember that Swarthmore, Media, Morton, Rutledge, etc are the way they are because they're on the Media/Elwyn rail line, and because they were built because of Chester, when Chester was a major city. If it weren't for Chester and being along the rail line, they would not have walkable downtowns or the older architecture they do. Those are TOD developments, and they exist along rail and trolley lines all over the central and eastern halves of the county. If you moved Swarthmore anywhere else, then it wouldn't be Swarthmore.
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:47 AM
 
177 posts, read 306,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCdelco View Post
s1oozne, we seem to agree on a lot of issues. Thank you for educating me about Delaware County. I especially like the way that you described the different areas by categorizing them into section, it worked much better than my original spiel.

So, if I were to give someone the low down on Delaware County, I would rank it like this: ......
No problem, always happy to help. I agree with your rankings for Central and Upper Central but I definitely disagree with your rankings for other sections.


Let's start with Eastern Delco:

1) Havertown (so does Pilgrim Gardens except for the part behind Pilgrim Gardens shopping center, by the way)
2) the parts of Drexel Hill outside of Kellyville
3) Lansdowne
4) the nicer parts of Upper Darby, such as Beverly Hills, Highland Park, etc/The middle class sections such as Westbrook Park, the section of Drexel Hill-Upper Darby along and near Lansdowne Ave filled with rowhomes, and the Bywood section of Upper Darby
5) Millbourne
6) East Lansdowne
7) Clifton Heights/the Kellyville section of Drexel Hill
8) Aldan
9) Collingdale
10) Yeadon
11) the less nice parts of Upper Darby, like the Long Lane section
12) Colwyn
13) Darby borough

Upper Darby really isn't a subpar district. It just has problems due to lack of funding and the problems caused by the more troubled parts of the district. It's mostly people being scared of the high school that come from the nicer sections of the township in the half that goes to Drexel Hill Middle School that ends up leading to this false idea that you can't get an education in Upper Darby that's every bit as good as you can in Springfield or Ridley. I also really don't understand your love for Aldan. It's pretty much the Glenolden of Eastern Delco. Kids from Aldan use the excuse of being in the William-Penn School District to act and talk like Aldan is so hard and so ghetto even though it isn't even as bad as Clifton. I've actually heard people from Aldan claim that Aldan is worse than Philly. Aldan is like if Lansdowne was almost entirely downscale (note: downscale does not mean working class, it means smaller homes and an overall feel to it, without actually being working class) and was full of people who would rather pretend to be ghetto than forge together as a community and try to fix things. That's exactly why places like Aldan, Glenolden, Springfield, etc have problems is because the people there don't give a crap about community, love to pretend to be ghetto, and can't handle adversity, so the second they get any even remotely real problems, their area starts going downhill.


Southeast Delco:

1) Darby Township (really just because it's always been more middle class and suburban than the others)
2) Sharon Hill (the people there seem to be a lot more resilient and less inclined to give in to acting lower class just because they have some major urban problems)
3) Folcroft (complete opposite of Sharon Hill)


Southern:

1) Ridley Park
2) Tinicum
3) Prospect Park/Norwood
4) Lower Chichester
5) Marcus Hook (because it has been dealing for decades with the problems that Eddystone and Southern Ridley are recently dealing with and yet is still a strong, proud community)/Linwood
6) Southern Ridley township (specifically talking about one of the worse parts of Ridley)
7) Eddystone
8) Parkside
9) Trainer
10) Upland
11) Chester Township
12) Chester city

I'm not sure why you think Interboro is so bad. It's like Southeast Delco (minus Darby township) before Southeast Delco went to crap, which only happened because of decline from Southwest Philly and from Darby. If you ask somebody from Southeast Delco, they will probably tell you that it was just fine until Southwest Philly and then the more stable parts of Darby went downhill, which only happened because Hurricane Floyd decimated entire sections of Darby. That happened to directly coincide with Elmwood and Eastwick losing the vast majority of their industry, effectively removing Southeast Delco's buffer of relatively safe and stable neighborhoods that had existed for decades if not a century or more. If those factories and other industrial places in Elmwood and Eastwick were still open, Southeast Delco would still be just fine even now. I think the Lower Northeast and Southest Delco (including Darby, Colwyn, and Collingdale in this) are very similar in that regard, because they both had buffer neighborhoods that separated them from the actually bad neighborhoods to the south (in the case of the Lower Northeast) and to the west (in the case of Southeast Delco) of those buffer neighborhoods. The other thing that really hurt Southeast Delco was that all of Southeast Delco either shared a school district (Collingdale, Folcroft, Sharon Hill, Darby township) or was in one that was declining as well (Darby borough, Colwyn).

Interboro however is pretty much isolated from Southeast Delco. Tinicum is separated from Folcroft by the Darby Creek and the wildlife refuge, which are large barriers, and the only parts that border legitimately bad neighborhoods are Glenolden and Norwood, and as bad as Folcroft is, it's still nowhere near as bad as Eastwick or Elmwood. There's a major difference between city neighborhoods and even working class ones that border the city. Southeast Delco and William Penn, as bad as they are, still have nothing on the schools in Southwest Philly, and as bad as Folcroft, Darby, and Colwyn might be, they don't have actual public housing projects like Eastwick and Elmwood have for decades, even when they were stable communities. Anybody who thinks Interboro is the next Southeast Delco doesn't understand how the situations just are not even remotely the same.


Southwestern Central Delco:

1) Media (Because it's such a small borough yet is becoming almost its own city at this point, and is leaps and bounds bigger than anywhere else in that general area or in most of the county)
2) Swarthmore (Because it's definitely the most old money, wealthy part of that area and because of Swarthmore College)
3) Wallingford (Second to Swarthmore when it comes to most everything but in the same excellent school district)
4) Rutledge (in between Wallingford and Morton in many ways)
5) Nether Providence
6) Middletown
7) Aston (though you could possibly switch Aston and Middletown)
8) Morton
9) Brookhaven


I want to make it clear that my rankings aren't personal. They're based on current conditions and potential in the future based on different things.

Last edited by s1oozne; 08-09-2013 at 04:59 AM..
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:20 AM
 
434 posts, read 1,152,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1oozne View Post

Southwestern Central Delco:

1) Media (Because it's such a small borough yet is becoming almost its own city at this point, and is leaps and bounds bigger than anywhere else in that general area or in most of the county)
2) Swarthmore (Because it's definitely the most old money, wealthy part of that area and because of Swarthmore College)
3) Wallingford (Second to Swarthmore when it comes to most everything but in the same excellent school district)
4) Rutledge (in between Wallingford and Morton in many ways)
5) Nether Providence
6) Middletown
7) Aston (though you could possibly switch Aston and Middletown)
8) Morton
9) Brookhaven


I want to make it clear that my rankings aren't personal. They're based on current conditions and potential in the future based on different things.
At a minimum you need to combine Wallingford & Nether Providence (since they're the same thing), and put it above Rutledge. (I doubt anyone in Rutledge would disagree.) You could also put Rose Valley into that same line item.

That said, this ranking is only useful for us to understand *your* own specific personal preferences... Someone who wants a big house with a yard will take Swarthmore or Nether Providence (Wallingford, Rose Valley) above Media borough, and vice versa if someone's preference is to live within a walkable suburban "downtown". Personal priorities and individual circumstance will dictate any ranking.
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:06 AM
 
Location: New York City
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People always seem to forget Upper Providence, and Edgemont to their Media are lists. Upper P is 19063, but seperate from Middletown. Edgemont/Gradyville have their own zipcode, I like mention them because they are beautiful areas.
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:30 AM
 
177 posts, read 306,228 times
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Now if I were to rank every part of the county solely based on current conditions, this is how I would rank them:

1) Main Line
2) Far Delco/Newtown township/Swarthmore/Wallingford/Media
3) Havertown/Rutledge/Nether Providence/Upper Marple
4) Middletown township/Aston/Lower Chichester/Linwood I guess
5) Lower Marple/Springfield/the Pilgrim Gardens, Aronimink, and Drexel Park sections of Drexel Hill
6) Ridley Township/Ridley Park/Lansdowne/Brookhaven/Morton/Drexel Hill outside of Kellyville (minus the parts mentioned in #5)
7) Glenolden/Tinicum/Prospect Park/Norwood/Darby township
8) East Lansdowne/the nicer and middle class parts of Upper Darby that don't include Drexel Hill/Millbourne
9) Aldan/Clifton Heights/the Kellyville section of Drexel Hill/Eddystone/Parkside
10) Collingdale/Yeadon/Sharon Hill/Marcus Hook
11) Folcroft/Trainer
12) Colwyn/Long Lane
13) Upland
14) Chester Township
15) Darby borough
16) Chester City


If we're talking about in 5 years, it would be:

1) Main Line
2) Media/Far Delco/Swarthmore/Wallingford/Newtown township
3) Havertown/Rutledge/Nether Providence
4) Upper Marple
5) Middletown Township/Aston
6) Lower Marple/Springfield/the Pilgrim Gardens, Aronimink, and Drexel Park sections of Drexel Hill/Lansdowne
7) Ridley Park/Morton
8) Drexel Hill outside of Kellyville(minus the parts mentioned in #6)/Brookhaven/East Lansdowne/the nicer parts of Upper Darby that don't include Drexel Hill
9) Ridley Township/Tinicum/Prospect Park/Norwood/the middle class parts of Upper Darby/Millbourne
10) Glenolden/Darby Township/Clifton Heights/Kellyville section of Drexel Hill
11) Yeadon/Aldan
12) Collingdale/Sharon Hill/Marcus Hook/Eddystone/Parkside
13) Folcroft/Trainer
14) Colwyn/Long Lane/Upland
15) Chester township/Darby borough
16) Chester city


If we're talking 10 years, then:

1) Main Line
2) Media/Swarthmore/Wallingford/Far Delco/Newtown township/Havertown/Rutledge
3) Nether Providence
4) Upper Marple/Middletown Township
5) Aston/Lansdowne/Ridley Park/the Aronimink, Drexel Park, and Pilgrim Gardens sections of Drexel Hill/the nicer parts of Upper Darby that don't include Drexel Hill/East Lansdowne
6) Lower Marple/Springfield/Drexel Hill outside of Kellyville(minus the parts mentioned in #5)/the middle class parts of Upper Darby/Millbourne/Morton/Tinicum/Prospect Park/Norwood
7) Yeadon/Clifton Heights/Kellyville section of Drexel Hill/Ridley township/Brookhaven
8) Aldan/Glenolden/Darby Township/Collingdale/Sharon Hill/Marcus Hook/Eddystone/Parkside
13) Folcroft/Trainer/Colwyn/Long Lane
14) Upland, Darby borough
15) Chester township
16) Chester City


If we're talking 15:

1) Main Line
2) Media/Swarthmore/Wallingford/Far Delco/Newtown township/Havertown/Rutledge
3) Nether Providence/Upper Marple/Middletown Township/Lansdowne/Ridley Park/the Aronimink, Drexel Park, and Pilgrim Gardens sections of Drexel Hill/the nicer parts of Upper Darby that don't include Drexel Hill/East Lansdowne/Millbourne/Morton
4) Aston/Yeadon/Drexel Hill outside of Kellyville(minus the parts mentioned in #3)/Lower Marple/Springfield/the middle class parts of Upper Darby
5) Clifton Heights/the Kellyville section of Drexel Hill/Tinicum/Prospect Park/Norwood
6) Ridley Township/Brookhaven/Glenolden/Darby Township/Collingdale/Sharon Hill/Marcus Hook/Eddystone/Aldan
7) Folcroft/Trainer/Colwyn/Darby borough
8) Upland/Chester Township/Chester city


And in 20:

1) Main Line
2) Media/Swarthmore/Wallingford/Far Delco/Newtown township/Havertown/Rutledge/Lansdowne/Ridley Park/the Aronimink, Drexel Park, and Pilgrim Gardens sections of Drexel Hill/the nicer parts of Upper Darby that don't include Drexel Hill/East Lansdowne
3) Nether Providence/Upper Marple/Yeadon/Middletown township/Morton/Millbourne/Drexel Hill outside of Kellyville(minus the parts mentioned in #2)
4) Aston/Lower Marple/Springfield/Clifton Heights/the middle class parts of Upper Darby/the Kellyville section of Drexel Hill/Tinicum/Prospect Park/Norwood
5) Ridley township/Brookhaven/Glenolden/Collingdale/Darby Township/Aldan/Sharon Hill/Marcus Hook/Eddystone/Darby borough
6) Colwyn/Folcroft/Trainer/Upland/Chester township/Chester City

Last edited by s1oozne; 08-09-2013 at 08:43 AM..
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:41 AM
 
177 posts, read 306,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyViaBoston View Post
At a minimum you need to combine Wallingford & Nether Providence (since they're the same thing), and put it above Rutledge. (I doubt anyone in Rutledge would disagree.) You could also put Rose Valley into that same line item.

That said, this ranking is only useful for us to understand *your* own specific personal preferences... Someone who wants a big house with a yard will take Swarthmore or Nether Providence (Wallingford, Rose Valley) above Media borough, and vice versa if someone's preference is to live within a walkable suburban "downtown". Personal priorities and individual circumstance will dictate any ranking.
Wallingford is a CDP within Nether Providence so why would I combine them? It's a small area and Nether Providence is plenty varied. I put Wallingford and Rutledge in the same rank because Rutledge is in the same excellent school district as Wallingford. Otherwise I'd have put Rutledge closer with Morton. Rose Valley is another community within a larger township, so I just included it within its township.

That's where you're wrong. My rankings are based on current conditions and on the future. Regardless of what anybody's preferences are, things are going to change based on something other than your or my personal preference. Also, Media does have plenty of big houses with yards in parts, and I don't really consider Media's downtown to be suburban just because it's outside of city limits. Media's really not all that much different from Darby or Chester when it comes to how urban its layout and especially its downtown is. That's how downtowns looked before skyscrapers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
People always seem to forget Upper Providence, and Edgemont to their Media are lists. Upper P is 19063, but seperate from Middletown. Edgemont/Gradyville have their own zipcode, I like mention them because they are beautiful areas.
I don't really consider an urban, walkable borough to be the same as large townships. I included both Edgemont and Upper Providence in "Far Delco" because of how much of those townships are so new and sprawled out. I put that "Far Delco" and Newtown township up there with the others because of how much money is coming into that area and how new so much of it is. I have no idea whether or not it will sustain itself, but in my "future" rankings, I gave it the benefit of the doubt. Newtown especially, because it's so close to the Main Line.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:00 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1oozne View Post
Wallingford is a CDP within Nether Providence so why would I combine them?
Again, not trying to nitpick Wallingford is another ZCTA (though again, one that should probably be a CDP) that covers most of Nether Providence Township and part of Rose Valley Borough.

The only reason I'm bringing this up is because census designated places that share their names with zip codes often do not coincide neatly with their zip code's boundaries, which can be confusing for people. For instance, the Bryn Mawr CDP is located entirely within Lower Merion and is a small, walkable, predominantly lower- to solidly middle-middle class community with strong blue collar traditions and a charming business district of its own, whereas much of the rest of the 19010 zip code (split between Lower Merion, Radnor, and Haverford) is auto-centric (though not IMO in a "soulless and sprawling" way) and is as wealthy as neighboring Villanova and Gladwyne (save for Garrett Hill, which is similar in identity to the Bryn Mawr CDP {what I like to call Route 30 Bryn Mawr}).

For a DelCo example, you may notice that the Broomall CDP is much smaller than the 19008 zip code.

Question for you: why do you think Upper Marple is going to do so much better than Lower Marple? I'm not extremely familiar with the area, but as I recall, the lower portion of the Township is more spread out/upscale/charming (similar to neighboring Upper Providence) than the upper portion, which appears mostly post-war pre-fab (in a similar fashion to Springfield). Just curious to hear your thoughts on the matter.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:07 AM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s1oozne View Post
Now if I were to rank every part of the county solely based on current conditions, this is how I would rank them:

1) Main Line
2) Far Delco/Newtown township/Swarthmore/Wallingford/Media
3) Havertown/Rutledge/Nether Providence/Upper Marple
4) Middletown township/Aston/Lower Chichester/Linwood I guess
5) Lower Marple/Springfield/the Pilgrim Gardens, Aronimink, and Drexel Park sections of Drexel Hill
6) Ridley Township/Ridley Park/Lansdowne/Brookhaven/Morton/Drexel Hill outside of Kellyville (minus the parts mentioned in #5)
7) Glenolden/Tinicum/Prospect Park/Norwood/Darby township
8) East Lansdowne/the nicer and middle class parts of Upper Darby that don't include Drexel Hill/Millbourne
9) Aldan/Clifton Heights/the Kellyville section of Drexel Hill/Eddystone/Parkside
10) Collingdale/Yeadon/Sharon Hill/Marcus Hook
11) Folcroft/Trainer
12) Colwyn/Long Lane
13) Upland
14) Chester Township
15) Darby borough
16) Chester City


If we're talking about in 5 years, it would be:

1) Main Line
2) Media/Far Delco/Swarthmore/Wallingford/Newtown township
3) Havertown/Rutledge/Nether Providence
4) Upper Marple
5) Middletown Township/Aston
6) Lower Marple/Springfield/the Pilgrim Gardens, Aronimink, and Drexel Park sections of Drexel Hill/Lansdowne
7) Ridley Park/Morton
8) Drexel Hill outside of Kellyville(minus the parts mentioned in #6)/Brookhaven/East Lansdowne/the nicer parts of Upper Darby that don't include Drexel Hill
9) Ridley Township/Tinicum/Prospect Park/Norwood/the middle class parts of Upper Darby/Millbourne
10) Glenolden/Darby Township/Clifton Heights/Kellyville section of Drexel Hill
11) Yeadon/Aldan
12) Collingdale/Sharon Hill/Marcus Hook/Eddystone/Parkside
13) Folcroft/Trainer
14) Colwyn/Long Lane/Upland
15) Chester township/Darby borough
16) Chester city


If we're talking 10 years, then:

1) Main Line
2) Media/Swarthmore/Wallingford/Far Delco/Newtown township/Havertown/Rutledge
3) Nether Providence
4) Upper Marple/Middletown Township
5) Aston/Lansdowne/Ridley Park/the Aronimink, Drexel Park, and Pilgrim Gardens sections of Drexel Hill/the nicer parts of Upper Darby that don't include Drexel Hill/East Lansdowne
6) Lower Marple/Springfield/Drexel Hill outside of Kellyville(minus the parts mentioned in #5)/the middle class parts of Upper Darby/Millbourne/Morton/Tinicum/Prospect Park/Norwood
7) Yeadon/Clifton Heights/Kellyville section of Drexel Hill/Ridley township/Brookhaven
8) Aldan/Glenolden/Darby Township/Collingdale/Sharon Hill/Marcus Hook/Eddystone/Parkside
13) Folcroft/Trainer/Colwyn/Long Lane
14) Upland, Darby borough
15) Chester township
16) Chester City


If we're talking 15:

1) Main Line
2) Media/Swarthmore/Wallingford/Far Delco/Newtown township/Havertown/Rutledge
3) Nether Providence/Upper Marple/Middletown Township/Lansdowne/Ridley Park/the Aronimink, Drexel Park, and Pilgrim Gardens sections of Drexel Hill/the nicer parts of Upper Darby that don't include Drexel Hill/East Lansdowne/Millbourne/Morton
4) Aston/Yeadon/Drexel Hill outside of Kellyville(minus the parts mentioned in #3)/Lower Marple/Springfield/the middle class parts of Upper Darby
5) Clifton Heights/the Kellyville section of Drexel Hill/Tinicum/Prospect Park/Norwood
6) Ridley Township/Brookhaven/Glenolden/Darby Township/Collingdale/Sharon Hill/Marcus Hook/Eddystone/Aldan
7) Folcroft/Trainer/Colwyn/Darby borough
8) Upland/Chester Township/Chester city


And in 20:

1) Main Line
2) Media/Swarthmore/Wallingford/Far Delco/Newtown township/Havertown/Rutledge/Lansdowne/Ridley Park/the Aronimink, Drexel Park, and Pilgrim Gardens sections of Drexel Hill/the nicer parts of Upper Darby that don't include Drexel Hill/East Lansdowne
3) Nether Providence/Upper Marple/Yeadon/Middletown township/Morton/Millbourne/Drexel Hill outside of Kellyville(minus the parts mentioned in #2)
4) Aston/Lower Marple/Springfield/Clifton Heights/the middle class parts of Upper Darby/the Kellyville section of Drexel Hill/Tinicum/Prospect Park/Norwood
5) Ridley township/Brookhaven/Glenolden/Collingdale/Darby Township/Aldan/Sharon Hill/Marcus Hook/Eddystone/Darby borough
6) Colwyn/Folcroft/Trainer/Upland/Chester township/Chester City
The Main Line is very nice and the wealthiest. But other towns are creeping up and I think are more desirable than the Main Line. For example, I see Chadds Ford/Thornbury area becoming the most desirable towns over the next decade.

Your other predictions seem accurate, but I do not think Yeadon and Upper Darby will be drastically improving over the next decade, therefore I would not put them in the category with Aston. I do not see Aston changing for the better or worse in the near future. It will just be Aston.

And I see Newtown Square and Glen Mills turning into even more monied communities than they already are. I see Media really becoming a little urban epicenter for the entire area over the next decade too.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:10 AM
 
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Curious as to why you think Ridley Township will be moving up rather than going farther downhill. I certainly don't know every detail about delco and it's history (obviously), but I was under the impression that Ridley Township is long past its heyday.
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:23 AM
 
Location: North by Northwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
The Main Line is very nice and the wealthiest. But other towns are creeping up and I think are more desirable than the Main Line. For example, I see Chadds Ford/Thornbury area becoming the most desirable towns over the next decade.
With regard to long-term prosperity one really big thing the Main Line has going for it that those other areas don't is a large, interconnected expanse of upscale walkable neighborhoods with distinct village centers. People are now trending away from the far-flung and auto-centric. The way trends are going, many upwardly mobile families of tomorrow are going to prefer a Victorian in, say, Wayne, to a sprawling estate in either Gladwyne or Chadds Ford.
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