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Old 08-14-2013, 07:58 AM
 
Location: back in Philadelphia!
3,260 posts, read 4,877,400 times
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^Just saying, the highest paid teacher in the Philadelphia school district makes $87,428. Not sure what exactly what the average teacher makes, but It's certainly much less than $100K

It's all publicly available information, so you can figure it out if you have the time.
Salary Ranges - The School District of Philadelphia

Principals and other administrators make more. So perhaps that's a bigger problem than the teachers?
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:11 AM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,966,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome View Post
^Just saying, the highest paid teacher in the Philadelphia school district makes $87,428. Not sure what exactly what the average teacher makes, but It's certainly much less than $100K

It's all publicly available information, so you can figure it out if you have the time.
Salary Ranges - The School District of Philadelphia

Principals and other administrators make more. So perhaps that's a bigger problem than the teachers?
Even at $87k, that is equivalent to $116k based on a 9 month school year. Add to that the value of healthcare benefits and pension for life, and some of these teachers are effectively making $150k - $200k per year. I know that teaching is important, but there are way more qualified teachers than there are available positons, so the supply and demand is completely out of balance.

In my district, teachers make up to $108k, which is ridiculous. The salary itself isn't as much the problem as the value of the benefits they receive. This is not sustainable and the bubble is about to burst. We're seeing it happen first in districts like Philadelphia that are poorer and more poorly managed, but it's going to hit every single district very soon.
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:43 AM
 
Location: back in Philadelphia!
3,260 posts, read 4,877,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus215 View Post
Even at $87k, that is equivalent to $116k based on a 9 month school year. Add to that the value of healthcare benefits and pension for life, and some of these teachers are effectively making $150k - $200k per year. I know that teaching is important, but there are way more qualified teachers than there are available positions, so the supply and demand is completely out of balance.

In my district, teachers make up to $108k, which is ridiculous. The salary itself isn't as much the problem as the value of the benefits they receive. This is not sustainable and the bubble is about to burst. We're seeing it happen first in districts like Philadelphia that are poorer and more poorly managed, but it's going to hit every single district very soon.

I don't disagree with you entirely, but I do think that however you want to project salaries and benefits, using the absolute top of the pay grade as exemplary makes for a very distorted picture. Most teachers are just not making that much.
And I know some that might disagree with you that their year only goes from September to May. Just the students calendar is 10 months long, and teachers are working before and after the students come, so they're certainly working more than 9 months per year. But that's beside the point.

I think that we would do better to look at the pay grades & benefits and even just the inflating numbers of administrative staff within the districts, rather than calling out teachers either individually or as a group. Administrators are making a lot more money than teachers, their numbers have grown disproportionately over the years, and I personally think that their value is much more questionable.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:32 AM
 
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Per the Bureau of Labor Statistics, nationally the median number of years for someone in the teaching labor force is 9.x years (I can't recall exactly where it falls between nine and ten). This is down from fifteen years back in the mid 1990s and is the lowest since BLS began tracking these data decades ago. And the trend of ever less expereinced and therefore lower compensated teaching staff has not abated yet. Nationally the single largest group of employed teachers are those in their first year in the teaching labor force. The median number of years worked varies by district with the general trend being that more affluent districts have the most experienced and therefore higher compensated teachers and low income districts having the least experienced and lowest compensated teachers.

Citing the top end of the pay scale as an argument for how teacher compensation is to blame for school district financial woes is one of the more baseless arguments that can be made, especially in regards to a district like Philadelphia where the teaching staff is very young in general. The ever increasing cost of the healthcare component of teacher compensation is an issue, but it is just one of numerous factors influencing school district finances around the country. Some of the others include unfunded and/or underfunded federal mandates, underfunded pension obligations, administrative bloat, and in some instances corruption.

In Philadelphia there is the added layer of corruption and financial inefficiency that comes from the SRC's drive to increase charter enrollment as fast as it can. You have crap like the city constructing a new building for Audenried, turning it over to Kenny Gamble and then not collecting millions of dollars in rent owed by Universal. Then you have the more general inefficent use of facilities and challenges with accurately predicting enrollment at individual schools or determining which entity is going to provide specialized services because the conflicting interests and incentives between the (often very well politcally connected, cough *Kenny Gamble* cough) charter operators and the SDP.

In short it's a very complex group of problems that go well beyond teacher compensation.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:52 AM
 
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I understand that not every teacher makes the high end of the pay scale, but it's yet another example of the disconnect between public school systems and the real world. The overwhelming problem, however, is pensions. This is a situation that should have been corrected long ago, at the same time that the private sector overwhelmingly turned to defined-contribution 401k plans (with a very limited employer match). Yet, it STILL hasn't been corrected in the public school system . . . not even for newly-hired teachers. That's something that could and should be done immediately, but the teachers unions will fight it every inch of the way. The influence of unions in politics, while much less than it once was, is still significant. Politicians are afraid to do anything about the problem. As often happens in these types of situations, the unions are contributing to the demise of those who fund their existence. As the funding gap intensifies, more and more teachers will lose their jobs and class sizes will explode.
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Old 08-14-2013, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
1,567 posts, read 2,663,137 times
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Teachers are college educated professionals with an incredibly important and demanding job. They deserve every penny they can get. (No. I'm not a teacher).
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Old 08-14-2013, 02:54 PM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,966,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mancat100 View Post
Teachers are college educated professionals with an incredibly important and demanding job. They deserve every penny they can get. (No. I'm not a teacher).
Sadly, they seem to feel the same way which is why we constantly see teachers striking or threatening to strike. That has gotten us to the situation we are in today. The way it works in the real world is you are paid according to the demand for, and scarcity of, your skill set. Employment is at-will and may be terminated by either party at any time. Teachers should work the same way. There way more qualified applicants than there are open teaching positions. That should tell you something.
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Old 08-14-2013, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Punta Gorda
318 posts, read 506,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mancat100 View Post
Teachers are college educated professionals with an incredibly important and demanding job. They deserve every penny they can get. (No. I'm not a teacher).
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Old 08-14-2013, 05:18 PM
 
28 posts, read 60,611 times
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The SDP is considering giving half days because they cannot afford to keep the schools open. That means this school year, students will be let out at 12 instead of 3. This gives them more time to be caught up in violence, mischief, etc.. Not a good thing. Since the School district can't afford to keep EC, all the students from those programs will be out too. This is probably going to spark a huge wave of crime during the school year.

I really hope they keep the schools open all day long in September (it pains me to say this, I hate school!) but when you think of the consequences this may bring (not to mention education), it is simply sickening to watch that utter mess that the SDP is becoming. They're merging good schools with bad school, bad schools with bad schools, and on very rare occasion, good schools with good schools. This school year when I go, there will be no counselor, no nurse, 30 kids in one class, and several behavioral related disruptions. Thanks SDP, I can't wait till I go to private school. I have had enough of you!
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Old 08-14-2013, 05:42 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 18,921,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotodome View Post
^Just saying, the highest paid teacher in the Philadelphia school district makes $87,428. Not sure what exactly what the average teacher makes, but It's certainly much less than $100K

It's all publicly available information, so you can figure it out if you have the time.
Salary Ranges - The School District of Philadelphia

Principals and other administrators make more. So perhaps that's a bigger problem than the teachers?

That was 2010. 2013 is higher. $100k is about right....

Oh and this guy told ya's a while back the Philly school district is in dire straights.. Remember??
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