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Old 08-15-2013, 03:20 AM
 
177 posts, read 306,228 times
Reputation: 40

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus215 View Post
Sadly, they seem to feel the same way which is why we constantly see teachers striking or threatening to strike. That has gotten us to the situation we are in today. The way it works in the real world is you are paid according to the demand for, and scarcity of, your skill set. Employment is at-will and may be terminated by either party at any time. Teachers should work the same way. There way more qualified applicants than there are open teaching positions. That should tell you something.
Right, again, it has nothing to do with the state, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paramorerocks558 View Post
The SDP is considering giving half days because they cannot afford to keep the schools open. That means this school year, students will be let out at 12 instead of 3. This gives them more time to be caught up in violence, mischief, etc.. Not a good thing. Since the School district can't afford to keep EC, all the students from those programs will be out too. This is probably going to spark a huge wave of crime during the school year.

I really hope they keep the schools open all day long in September (it pains me to say this, I hate school!) but when you think of the consequences this may bring (not to mention education), it is simply sickening to watch that utter mess that the SDP is becoming. They're merging good schools with bad school, bad schools with bad schools, and on very rare occasion, good schools with good schools. This school year when I go, there will be no counselor, no nurse, 30 kids in one class, and several behavioral related disruptions. Thanks SDP, I can't wait till I go to private school. I have had enough of you!
That's exactly what they want you to do.

Still, you do what is best for you. It's students like you who are the only victims in this situation, and both sides are wrong.
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Old 08-15-2013, 03:21 AM
 
177 posts, read 306,228 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankgn87 View Post
That was 2010. 2013 is higher. $100k is about right....

Oh and this guy told ya's a while back the Philly school district is in dire straights.. Remember??
It's funny how you love to talk like somebody from Philly or another working class area while you disparage the city and talk about how great Bucks County (where you grew up and went to high school) or South Jersey is.

Give it five or ten years and we'll see how much better off your "excellent" Bucks County and South Jersey schools are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJCPHL View Post
As for Corbett's decision, I say good for him. Taxpayers in Erie and Harrisburg and Altoona should not be bailing out the state's biggest city. It just doesn't make sense.
And yet another person doesn't get it.

Cities like Philadelphia are the only reason the state exists. Without its cities, the state would be absolutely nothing. It's the cities that have been bailing out the suburbs for decades now, not even remotely the other way around.

Corbett is the reason this is happening. He CONTROLS the school district through the SRC, and Superintendent Hite is just another one of his cronies, a mercenary sent to destroy the district and then privatize what's left.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:41 AM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,966,926 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1oozne View Post
And what about the disconnect between sheltered suburbanites, politicians, and the real world? Seriously, this real world you all love to talk about doesn't seem to somewhere you spend much time in. How many of the people constantly trying to tell Philadelphia how to be "fiscally responsible" have the least bit of a clue about how to do that? How many have even had to at any point in their life? How many have had to deal with any of the problems the district has had to, like not having enough money for basic needs, having to deal with safety issues the suburbs couldn't even imagine? Any of them? A single one?
Philadelphia schools spend $10,000+ per student (as do all public schools - most spend even more). A (nonunion) catholic school costs about $5,000 per student and offers a superior education. Why is that? Answer: teachers unions.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,673 posts, read 10,245,988 times
Reputation: 9515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus215 View Post
Philadelphia schools spend $10,000+ per student (as do all public schools - most spend even more). A (nonunion) catholic school costs about $5,000 per student and offers a superior education. Why is that? Answer: teachers unions.
A bit over simplistic, don't you think? What about special ed costs that the public schools have to absorb? What about the fact that you have greater parental support implicit when families are choosing to send their kids to tuition based schools? Not to mention transportation, which the district provides to private school students. While union contracts and benefits (which were all approved by the district) may play a role, it is an immature view to say it is the only factor.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:42 AM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,966,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
A bit over simplistic, don't you think? What about special ed costs that the public schools have to absorb? What about the fact that you have greater parental support implicit when families are choosing to send their kids to tuition based schools? Not to mention transportation, which the district provides to private school students. While union contracts and benefits (which were all approved by the district) may play a role, it is an immature view to say it is the only factor.
Not the only factor - transportation cost is a valid point - but it is the largest factor. Most suburban districts spend upwards of $15k per student, which is 3 times as much as a parish/archdiosece catholic school. Point is, public school districts are run extremely ineffeciently and it's time to make drastic changes.
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,673 posts, read 10,245,988 times
Reputation: 9515
Are you aware that archdiocesan high school teachers are represented by a union?
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Old 08-17-2013, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Philly
156 posts, read 393,550 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1oozne View Post
And yet another person doesn't get it.

Cities like Philadelphia are the only reason the state exists. Without its cities, the state would be absolutely nothing. It's the cities that have been bailing out the suburbs for decades now, not even remotely the other way around.

Corbett is the reason this is happening. He CONTROLS the school district through the SRC, and Superintendent Hite is just another one of his cronies, a mercenary sent to destroy the district and then privatize what's left.
First of all, I said I didn't get it in my OP.

The city is supposed to be an economic engine. Economic engines contribute, they don't get bailed out. It's not like the Commonwealth puts a drain on the economy -- our income tax is really low compared to other states, especially big states. (Comparison: 6.45% for HH earning < $150,000 in New York State.)

And from what I understand, the SRC was formed because Philly schools were in rough financial shape when it was formed. So how does a city that collects more in income tax than the state (for residents and non-residents alike), plus a 2% sales tax, find itself in such rough shape? Seems like there has to be some pretty catastrophic management at the city level.
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Old 08-18-2013, 08:36 AM
 
177 posts, read 306,228 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus215 View Post
Philadelphia schools spend $10,000+ per student (as do all public schools - most spend even more). A (nonunion) catholic school costs about $5,000 per student and offers a superior education. Why is that? Answer: teachers unions.
Catholic education is not superior. Sorry. I don't think you know much about Catholic education. They had to radically overhaul Catholic education after they closed so many schools because it was so far behind public education.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus215 View Post
Not the only factor - transportation cost is a valid point - but it is the largest factor. Most suburban districts spend upwards of $15k per student, which is 3 times as much as a parish/archdiosece catholic school. Point is, public school districts are run extremely ineffeciently and it's time to make drastic changes.
And again, it has absolutely nothing to do with the lack of funding since 1970, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SJCPHL View Post
First of all, I said I didn't get it in my OP.

The city is supposed to be an economic engine. Economic engines contribute, they don't get bailed out. It's not like the Commonwealth puts a drain on the economy -- our income tax is really low compared to other states, especially big states. (Comparison: 6.45% for HH earning < $150,000 in New York State.)

And from what I understand, the SRC was formed because Philly schools were in rough financial shape when it was formed. So how does a city that collects more in income tax than the state (for residents and non-residents alike), plus a 2% sales tax, find itself in such rough shape? Seems like there has to be some pretty catastrophic management at the city level.
Actually, no it isn't supposed to be an economic engine. It's supposed to be a city. The city has never gotten bailed out. I think you might want to learn about the actual history of this state before you go talking about how the suburbs are bailing the cities out when they were subsidized by the cities and when they get funding that would've otherwise gone to the cities.

The SRC was formed because the state has takeover laws that allow it to do that, unfortunately. The corrupt SRC made the problem much, much worse than it was before, and sought to privatize as much education as possible. By the way, the state has done the same with financially distressed municipalities, not just districts, such as the city of Chester, whose home rule charter it altered and whose rights and powers it lessened.

Or maybe it's the fact that the state has bled the city dry and uses it as a cash cow yet doesn't give it anywhere near the amount of dollars back that it gives to the state. Maybe it's the fact that the suburbs have done the same thing to the city ever since the post-war era started.

You can blame it on the city all you like but that's completely inaccurate and doesn't take into account the many factors that exacerbated the problem.
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Old 08-18-2013, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Philly
156 posts, read 393,550 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by s1oozne View Post
Actually, no it isn't supposed to be an economic engine. It's supposed to be a city. The city has never gotten bailed out. I think you might want to learn about the actual history of this state before you go talking about how the suburbs are bailing the cities out when they were subsidized by the cities and when they get funding that would've otherwise gone to the cities.

The SRC was formed because the state has takeover laws that allow it to do that, unfortunately. The corrupt SRC made the problem much, much worse than it was before, and sought to privatize as much education as possible. By the way, the state has done the same with financially distressed municipalities, not just districts, such as the city of Chester, whose home rule charter it altered and whose rights and powers it lessened.

Or maybe it's the fact that the state has bled the city dry and uses it as a cash cow yet doesn't give it anywhere near the amount of dollars back that it gives to the state. Maybe it's the fact that the suburbs have done the same thing to the city ever since the post-war era started.

You can blame it on the city all you like but that's completely inaccurate and doesn't take into account the many factors that exacerbated the problem.
Jeez, you're awfully hostile about this.

I still think that the largest city in the state should be able to provide basic services to citizens, like running primary and secondary schools, especially when we pay pretty high taxes. (The city also taxes non-residents pretty nicely as well, assessing a higher wage tax to non-resident workers than the state does and charging them a 2% sales tax.)

I'm sympathetic to problems that would result from the state running a city school district -- I think it should run as locally as possible. But how did the city even get to this point? Does PIT have this problem? How much of this stems from the city's failure to collect property taxes?
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:56 AM
 
Location: back in Philadelphia!
3,260 posts, read 4,877,400 times
Reputation: 2051
An on-topic article from Salon today:

“Indescribably insane: Philadelphia's Public School Nightmare"

sobering opening paragraphs:

"Want to see a public school system in its death throes? Look no further than Philadelphia. There, the school district is facing end times, with teachers, parents and students staring into the abyss created by a state intent on destroying public education.

On Thursday the city of Philadelphia announced that it would be borrowing $50 million to give the district, just so it can open schools as planned on Sept. 9, after Superintendent William Hite threatened to keep the doors closed without a cash infusion. The schools may open without counselors, administrative staff, noon aids, nurses, librarians or even pens and paper, but hey, kids will have a place to go and sit.

The $50 million fix is just the latest band-aid for a district that is beginning to resemble a rotting bike tube, covered in old patches applied to keep it functioning just a little while longer. At some point, the entire system fails.

Things have gotten so bad that at least one school has asked parents to chip in $613 per student just so they can open with adequate services, which, if it becomes the norm, effectively defeats the purpose of equitable public education, and is entirely unreasonable to expect from the city’s poorer neighborhoods.

The needs of children are secondary, however, to [...] governor Tom Corbett who remains fixated on breaking the district in order to crush the teachers union and divert money to unproven experiments like vouchers and privately run charters. If the city’s children are left uneducated and impoverished among the smoldering wreckage of a broken school system, so be it.

To be clear, the schools are in crisis because the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania refuses to fund them adequately. The state Constitution mandates that the Legislature “provide for the maintenance and support of a thorough and efficient system of public education,” but that language appears to be considered some kind of sick joke at the state capital in Harrisburg.

It’s worth noting that the state itself runs the Philadelphia School District after a 2001 takeover. The state is also responsible for catastrophic budget cuts two years ago that crippled the district’s finances. And in a diabolical example of circular logic, the state argues that the red ink it imposed, and shoddy management it oversees, are proof that the district can’t manage its finances or its mission and therefore shouldn’t get more money."
(follow link for more)
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