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Old 09-16-2013, 09:09 AM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,967,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011 View Post
Clearly you're an economist. Sales tax rate in nyc is nearly 9%.
PA is tied for the 16th highest state sales tax rate. I'm not a mathmetician, but i'd call that above average. If you think PA can get away with charging the same sales tax as New York City, you're nuts. PA is already heavily taxed as a state, and Philly is in particular. More taxes is not the solution.

State and Local Sales Tax Rates in 2013 | Tax Foundation
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
33,072 posts, read 61,899,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus215 View Post
More taxes is not the solution.
Well, then, you either get higher user fees or cuts in service. Or both.

Which one do you choose?
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:31 AM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,967,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Well, then, you either get higher user fees or cuts in service. Or both.

Which one do you choose?
I would first propose cutting administrative spending and running the organization more efficiently, which is undoubtedly at the heart of the problem. After that, I would propose more state funding, if it can be made available in the budget, since increased utilization of SEPTA saves the state in the form of lower highway funding. After that, I would propose higher fees, if that's what is needed to support the operation, as well as cutting services that don't receive enough ridership to make them economically sustainable.

Increasing taxes in what is already a high-tax environment will not solve any problems. It will just make more people and businesses leave the area. The last thing PA needs is to become more like New Jersey.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
33,072 posts, read 61,899,312 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus215 View Post
After that, I would propose more state funding, if it can be made available in the budget, since increased utilization of SEPTA saves the state in the form of lower highway funding.
LOL, where do you think "more state funding" comes from?

That's right folks ... TAXES!!!!
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:58 PM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,967,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
LOL, where do you think "more state funding" comes from?

That's right folks ... TAXES!!!!
I guess that's the Democtratic way to think of it, but I would say that it comes from cutting other areas, or it doesn't come at all. In other words, no incremental taxes.

Last edited by Angus215; 09-16-2013 at 02:10 PM..
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:18 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista
2,472 posts, read 3,487,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus215 View Post
PA is tied for the 16th highest state sales tax rate. I'm not a mathmetician, but i'd call that above average. If you think PA can get away with charging the same sales tax as New York City, you're nuts. PA is already heavily taxed as a state, and Philly is in particular. More taxes is not the solution.

State and Local Sales Tax Rates in 2013 | Tax Foundation
Philly doesn't charge what nyc charges, nyc charges more. You made the statement that the higher sales taxes are, leads to businesses leaving the city. Clearly you're wrong as the biggest cities in america with the healthiest economies mostly have much higher sales taxes than the rest of America.

More taxes is not the solution? What is then? Continue to cut education and public services?

Ignore history, ignore data, ignore precident, ignore reality, just cut taxes no matter what! As always great thinking from the right.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:25 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,026 posts, read 14,479,561 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011 View Post
Philly doesn't charge what nyc charges, nyc charges more. You made the statement that the higher sales taxes are, leads to businesses leaving the city. Clearly you're wrong as the biggest cities in america with the healthiest economies mostly have much higher sales taxes than the rest of America.

More taxes is not the solution? What is then? Continue to cut education and public services?

Ignore history, ignore data, ignore precident, ignore reality, just cut taxes no matter what! As always great thinking from the right.
philadelphias overall taxes are much higher than most cities taxes theres no disputing that. were not nyc, houston has a high sales tax but no wage tax. we also have tax free DE down the road. it's hard not to notice that most successful retail is apparel (ie tax free)

Last edited by pman; 09-17-2013 at 06:53 AM..
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:51 AM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,967,815 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011 View Post
Philly doesn't charge what nyc charges, nyc charges more. You made the statement that the higher sales taxes are, leads to businesses leaving the city. Clearly you're wrong as the biggest cities in america with the healthiest economies mostly have much higher sales taxes than the rest of America.

More taxes is not the solution? What is then? Continue to cut education and public services?

Ignore history, ignore data, ignore precident, ignore reality, just cut taxes no matter what! As always great thinking from the right.
Where did I say anything about cutting taxes? Don't recall proposing that. However, Philly cannot get away with charging the same taxes as NYC, for reasons that should be obvious to most reasonable people. NYC is the financial, media, and retail hub of America. Depending on their Industry, companies can't easily leave . . . but they can easily leave philadelphia and have been doing so for a long time. Philadelphia already has among the highest taxes in the country . . . in fact it DOES have the highest wage tax in the country. Sorry, but we have a finite amount of resources and we have to choose where best to spend them. Incrementally raising taxes only aggravates the problem - businesses and people will simply leave. It's unfortunate that so many view taxes as an unlimited trough and expect others to foot the bill for what they view as necessary.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Montco PA
2,065 posts, read 4,291,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus215 View Post
Where did I say anything about cutting taxes? Don't recall proposing that. However, Philly cannot get away with charging the same taxes as NYC, for reasons that should be obvious to most reasonable people. NYC is the financial, media, and retail hub of America. Depending on their Industry, companies can't easily leave . . . but they can easily leave philadelphia and have been doing so for a long time. Philadelphia already has among the highest taxes in the country . . . in fact it DOES have the highest wage tax in the country. Sorry, but we have a finite amount of resources and we have to choose where best to spend them. Incrementally raising taxes only aggravates the problem - businesses and people will simply leave. It's unfortunate that so many view taxes as an unlimited trough and expect others to foot the bill for what they view as necessary.
I agree that Philadelphia cannot ever charge what NYC charges for the reasons you stated.

Regarding taxes, I agree that they are not an unlimited trough, but count me as someone who feels that a healthy SEPTA is necessary, so it needs to be funded somehow. Imagine NYC with a reduced public transportation system.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Philly
10,026 posts, read 14,479,561 times
Reputation: 2774
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPP1999 View Post
I agree that Philadelphia cannot ever charge what NYC charges for the reasons you stated.

Regarding taxes, I agree that they are not an unlimited trough, but count me as someone who feels that a healthy SEPTA is necessary, so it needs to be funded somehow. Imagine NYC with a reduced public transportation system.
montgomery county could probably add a 1% sales tax to fudn transit but the city, already at 8%, cannot afford to do so IMO.the city would have to find other means, perhaps by improving property tax collections. I agree that local funding has to be part of the solution to fund SEPTA and maybe increased local funding will help spark a drive to improve SEPTA operationally.
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