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Old 09-15-2013, 09:26 PM
 
4 posts, read 3,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Bowa View Post
Shouldn't assume? LOL! Show me a neighborhood that got better or even stayed the same when working-class ... moved in. And please don't bring up Mount Airy ... that's not what it was, either.
We're dealing with different cultures ...
If the "..." are as destructive as you claim they are, they probably aren't working class. And Mount Airy isn't exactly what it was because for the most part, it hasn't really changed. And I'm a bit confused as to what you mean by different cultures. Being hard working, having middle class values, and instilling that in your children translates across all ethnic boundaries.
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Old 09-16-2013, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia,PA
469 posts, read 799,892 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Bowa View Post
Shouldn't assume? LOL! Show me a neighborhood that got better or even stayed the same when working-class ... moved in. And please don't bring up Mount Airy ... that's not what it was, either.
We're dealing with different cultures ...
I agree with you on some parts, but it`s not that cut and dry. Here is what usually happens. You get a hard working black, mixed or hispanic family. They move into a neighborhood,before some of neighbors gives them a chance. They loose their mind and put their house up for sale under market price,looking for a fast sale. (I know of one fool who sold for half the market price) Now when you do that, you let trash into a neighborhood that would never been able to afford it. Then other neighbors who are too deep into their mortgage,they section 8 their house out.Nothing kills a neighborhood faster then section 8.
You say don`t bring up Mt. Airy,well I am going there. I brought it up before,I come from a mix family. My family caught hell in Philly (we are talking 60`s and 70`s)until we moved to Mt.Airy. I still live in Mt.Airy and would put my area up against any in the tri state. My block looks like the U.N. and no ones cares and we all take care of our homes.
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Old 09-16-2013, 07:23 AM
 
Location: New York City
6,224 posts, read 5,562,899 times
Reputation: 3320
Its not really black people that make an area bad, its the totally uncivilized barbaric behavior that is all too common in many of Philadelphia's neighborhood, there just happens to be an overwhelming percentage of those people that are black.. I personally think that this city has wayyy to much section 8 housing for its size. It should be cut by a good 15-25% The city will never drastically improve if there is this high a percentage of poor low life people living in it, they will just relocate to a different part of the city, or unfortunately infect some of the close by suburbs.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:28 AM
 
802 posts, read 1,139,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tintin19119 View Post
You get a hard working black, mixed or hispanic family. They move into a neighborhood,before some of neighbors gives them a chance.
If this had been the case in Wissinoming I would still be living there. A majority of the people moving in stayed up all night and it was apparent after awhile that they were on welfare.

I remember driving through that same area with a friend a few years ago. The transformation is amazing. Just about every business that was there is gone, even the Wawa at Torresdale & Harbison.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
33,068 posts, read 61,890,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
I personally think that this city has wayyy to much section 8 housing for its size. It should be cut by a good 15-25% The city will never drastically improve if there is this high a percentage of poor low life people living in it, they will just relocate to a different part of the city, or unfortunately infect some of the close by suburbs.
If subsidized housing is reduced, then what happens to the people living in that housing? It's no different from gentrification -- people have to go somewhere after their affordable housing options are removed.

Shuffling people around from neighborhood to neighborhood is not the answer.
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Old 09-16-2013, 09:04 AM
 
Location: New York City
6,224 posts, read 5,562,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
If subsidized housing is reduced, then what happens to the people living in that housing? It's no different from gentrification -- people have to go somewhere after their affordable housing options are removed.

Shuffling people around from neighborhood to neighborhood is not the answer.

My hope would be that they would leave the area altogether, or it might actually be beneficial for many young low life people. Often times section 8 housing (PHA Homes) rent is extremely low, little to no cost and every problem is fixed free of charge, low life people will never learn to appreciate/work for something if it is just given to them without repercussions. These section 8 homes have income brackets, so why would a 25 year old who is feeding off of the system want to look for a decent paying job when they can work 1 day a week and stay in a section 8 home. Possible solutions: there needs to be less available cheap housing, higher rents/utility cost, repercussions against poorly maintained properties (PHA tries to implement that, but lacks man power to do so), time limitations on the housing, and age restrictions for the housing, (senior citizens should be primary clients). A very long process, but I think it would benfit the city over time.
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Old 09-16-2013, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Philaburbia
33,068 posts, read 61,890,891 times
Reputation: 55485
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
My hope would be that they would leave the area altogether
You want Philadelphia's poor to become some other city's problem? Nice.

The city needs more affordable housing, not less. But I agree there need to be more strings attached to public housing, especially when it comes to property damage.

There's no one-size-fits-all solution. But the result of gentrification -- and, at the other end of the spectrum, reducing the availability of subsidized housing -- need to be considered. People have to go somewhere.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:06 AM
 
92 posts, read 101,253 times
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I don't think all section 8 renters are bad, or non-working welfare recipients. And while I do think there should be more affordable housing options, there does need to be a cap on how many of these properties are located in each neighborhood.

On a block of say 20 or 30 homes 5 section 8 or renters is not going to bring the neighborhood down. Also, a mix of socio-economic backgrounds can help build the human capital of a neighborhood. Networking for jobs and a interpersonal support system can be established. None of the populations have to feel threatened if there is a healthy mix in the neighborhood. This way the person who may have been raised in section 8, rental or some other non traditional "home owning" family will be able to learn neighborhood pride, how to care for their home (rental or not) and how to respect neighborly boundaries.

I was raised in apartments by a single mom. My mother did not buy her first home until I was in college. I never learned how to fix anything. I try my best, but I am nervous to try anything serious on my own and unfortunately I don't have the money to throw into fixing things or to pay for regular maintenance. My grass is sorely in need of cutting right now! If I lived in a community that was vested in supporting its neighbors and keeping the value up, I may have some help! Feasible? That remains to be seen, but it is the model many of the renovated housing projects are attempting now.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:08 AM
 
8,048 posts, read 18,469,927 times
Reputation: 2738
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpomp View Post
My hope would be that they would leave the area altogether, or it might actually be beneficial for many young low life people. Often times section 8 housing (PHA Homes) rent is extremely low, little to no cost and every problem is fixed free of charge, low life people will never learn to appreciate/work for something if it is just given to them without repercussions. These section 8 homes have income brackets, so why would a 25 year old who is feeding off of the system want to look for a decent paying job when they can work 1 day a week and stay in a section 8 home. Possible solutions: there needs to be less available cheap housing, higher rents/utility cost, repercussions against poorly maintained properties (PHA tries to implement that, but lacks man power to do so), time limitations on the housing, and age restrictions for the housing, (senior citizens should be primary clients). A very long process, but I think it would benfit the city over time.
I'm with you regarding Section 8 residents who don't make a reasonable attempt to maintain the integrity of their homes.

Otherwise, I feel there would have to be gainful employment available for those encouraged by the threat of higher rents/lower eligibility to find such work. This can be a problem when the preponderance of more job growth out in the 'burbs where such aspiring workers, without a car and/or facing a long, financially offsetting transit commute, may be discouraged.

Yes, I know that many people support accelerating the elimination of wage taxes, the minimization of corporate taxes as well as the collection of delinquent property taxes to make up for the loss - as potential solutions. That, besides being perhaps another thread, is obviously much easier said than done.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:08 AM
 
Location: New York City
6,224 posts, read 5,562,899 times
Reputation: 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
You want Philadelphia's poor to become some other city's problem? Nice.

The city needs more affordable housing, not less. But I agree there need to be more strings attached to public housing, especially when it comes to property damage.

There's no one-size-fits-all solution. But the result of gentrification -- and, at the other end of the spectrum, reducing the availability of subsidized housing -- need to be considered. People have to go somewhere.

Well there will always be a lot of poor people in this country. Some cities just know how to handle the problem better than others, so if you wanna put it that way, Im sure the city wouldnt mind if those residents left. And when I say poor, I dont mean working class family working hard to get by, I mean the low life thug people that fill a lot of Phillys poor neighborhoods.

If the city were to increase affordable housing, it needs to be planned correctly, unlike so many prior failed attempts and yes they do need to enact some new standards, no one should be given special treatment. I would have been kicked and taken to court by my landlord if I did some of the things that people do to these low income housing units. That needs to end, and then they will learn.
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