Old Money vs New Money (Philadelphia, Ardmore: loans, house, neighborhoods)

[gophils09]

I was reading an article recently about the history of the Main Line and the phenomenon of old money vs new money. I'm curious as to what the general consensus is about new money vs old money in this area. Which Main Line areas (and surrounding communities) attract new money and which ones are enclaves for old money families? What are some of the behavioral differences in each (either general or specific to this area)?

I think the old money areas are:
- Radnor
- Bala Cynwyd
- Bryn Mawr
- Villanova
- Haverford
- Ardmore


New money:
- Malvern/Paoli
- Newtown Square
- T/E area

[RightonWalnut]

Chestnut Hill is old money. A lot of neighborhoods in Center City and the surrounding area is attracting new money.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by gophils09

I was reading an article recently about the history of the Main Line and the phenomenon of old money vs new money. I'm curious as to what the general consensus is about new money vs old money in this area. Which Main Line areas (and surrounding communities) attract new money and which ones are enclaves for old money families? What are some of the behavioral differences in each (either general or specific to this area)?

I think the old money areas are:
- Radnor
- Bala Cynwyd
- Bryn Mawr
- Villanova
- Haverford
- Ardmore


New money:
- Malvern/Paoli
- Newtown Square
- T/E area

Bala-Cynwyd is plurarity-Jewish (who are almost never old money by default). Radnor is by and large post-war development and becoming heavily Asian at that; I don't know why you'd separate it from Newtown Square. Ardmore is mostly working to middle class, blue collar, and features a large African American population, save for the portions above Montgomery Avenue in Lower Merion and around Merion GC in Haverford. Ditto Paoli--a historically working to middle class African American core (though unlike Ardmore, this core has declined in prominence in recent years) with upscale residential areas at the fringes. Bryn Mawr itself (not the bucolic, Gladwyne-like areas, which are actually Rosemont) is also historically working to middle class.

Rosemont, Villanova, and Haverford do still have notable old money presences, but they're looking pretty Jewy these days as well. Lower Merion as a whole is a historically old money Township that has managed to maintain its old money mystique, despite the fact that these days, new money constitute the overwhelming majority (though some of them do their darndest to imitate the blue bloods that preceded them, which is as hilarious as it is pathetic). True blue bloods do exist and they continue to run in their own tight-knit circles.

It's interesting that you mention Tredyffrin/Easttown as charactistically new money, when they're the areas to which a lot of the Lower Merion old money fled after it became "overrun" with Jewish families. I'd say the area is more diametrically opposed.

Malvern is solidly new money.

[cpomp]

HeavonWood explained it all. Seems like the more west you go from Lower Merion itself the more "new money" there is. One thing though, Newtown Square and Radnor seem split with new and old money. Those areas have historically been wealthy. Newtown Square has just seen a recent upscale building boom adding more of a new money presence.

[RCdelco]

Good points, Heavenwood!

I suppose I don't quite understand why a place such as Bala Cynwyd can't be both Jewish and old money. Surely there are Jewish people who come from blue blood?

Also, I separate Radnor and Newtown Square for a few reasons. Radnor is the main line, Newtown Square is not. Radnor school district totally trumps newtown square's. Although there are wealthy enclaves in newtown square, a middle class family would have no problem finding a house there - the same simply cannot be said for Radnor.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by cpomp

HeavonWood explained it all. Seems like the more west you go from Lower Merion itself the more "new money" there is. One thing though, Newtown Square and Radnor seem split with new and old money. Those areas have historically been wealthy. Newtown Square has just seen a recent upscale building boom adding more of a new money presence.

I'd say the Wayne and St. Davids portions of the 19087 zip are much more old money than the (admittedly loosely defined) "Radnor" part. Agreed on Newtown Square being split.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by RCdelco

Good points, Heavenwood!

I suppose I don't quite understand why a place such as Bala Cynwyd can't be both Jewish and old money. Surely there are Jewish people who come from blue blood?

Also, I separate Radnor and Newtown Square for a few reasons. Radnor is the main line, Newtown Square is not. Radnor school district totally trumps newtown square's. Although there are wealthy enclaves in newtown square, a middle class family would have no problem finding a house there - the same simply cannot be said for Radnor.

Blue blood, by definition, means multi-generational landed gentry WASP. Bala-Cynwyd did not become Jewish until after the war, and the Jews who moved in were either 1st or 2nd generation upper middle class, flocking in between the '50s and '70s, plus the arrival of an Orthodox contingent in the '90s and '00s. The Jewish money on the Main Line is now mostly 2nd and 3rd generation. IMO, the old money title cannot be bestowed until you get to 5th or so, and even then, that doesn't decide whether one comes from sufficiently "good breeding."

And it's not just Jews. LM has a good amount of Irish/Italian/other sundry white ethnic, predominantly-Catholic new money as well (and now, an increasing number of Asians). There's probably a pretty even split between the two (~1/3 + ~1/3) with the remainder split between conventional middle/working class families and the true blue blood elites.

[Clark Park]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

Blue blood, by definition, means multi-generational landed gentry WASP. Bala-Cynwyd did not become Jewish until after the war, and the Jews who moved in were either 1st or 2nd generation upper middle class, flocking in between the '50s and '70s, plus the arrival of an Orthodox contingent in the '90s and '00s. The Jewish money on the Main Line is now mostly 2nd and 3rd generation. IMO, the old money title cannot be bestowed until you get to 5th or so, and even then, that doesn't decide whether one comes from sufficiently "good breeding."

And it's not just Jews. LM has a good amount of Irish/Italian/other sundry white ethnic, predominantly-Catholic new money as well (and now, an increasing number of Asians). There's probably a pretty even split between the two (~1/3 + ~1/3) with the remainder split between conventional middle/working class families and the true blue blood elites.

Oy vey.

I suppose you don't consider the Gratz (you know: Gratz College, Simon Gratz High School, etc.) family "blue bloods" - whatever that means - or Haym Solomon or Aaron Levy - both who helped finance the American Revolution and made loans to the Continental Congress. Or how about Moses Mordecai or the Rosenbach brothers (you know: the Rosenbach Museum) or Clarence Siegel (who developed the Garden Court neighborhood), etc. I mean distinguished Jewish Philadelphians only date back to the 1750's and 1760's and were not part of William Penn's immediate circle. Is that what you mean?

Would you consider J. P. Morgan a blue blood? Morgan's financial empire only began in 1893 after he started buying out the Drexel family (true West Philly "blue bloods" if you will) ... after the Lit Brothers (who were Jewish) started their own retail empire 2 years earlier in 1891.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Clark Park

Oy vey.

I suppose you don't consider the Gratz (you know: Gratz College, Simon Gratz High School, etc.) family "blue bloods" - whatever that means - or Haym Solomon or Aaron Levy - both who helped finance the American Revolution and made loans to the Continental Congress. Or how about Moses Mordecai or the Rosenbach brothers (you know: the Rosenbach Museum) or Clarence Siegel (who developed the Garden Court neighborhood), etc. I mean distinguished Jewish Philadelphians only date back to the 1750's and 1760's and were not part of William Penn's immediate circle. Is that what you mean?

Would you consider J. P. Morgan a blue blood? Morgan's financial empire only began in 1893 after he started buying out the Drexel family (true West Philly "blue bloods" if you will) ... after the Lit Brothers (who were Jewish) started their own retail empire 2 years earlier in 1891.

Blueblood is by definition WASPy. Jews cannot be bluebloods, though some have certainly tried their darnedest to emulate them (Walter Annenberg comes to mind).

You are right that there are some notable Jewish old money families, but these are relatively few and far between. The distinguished Philadelphians you mention are part of a very small social cachet that was eclipsed during the great wave of immigration, when Philly's Jewish arrivals were overwhelmingly dirt poor and from the Pale of Settlement. Philly is a mostly Russian Jewish town (something like 80% came from Czarist Russia/the former USSR). The Germans mostly came earlier and were wealthier (they are the great bulk of the Philly Jewish old money contingent, along with some sundry Sephardim, however small by comparison their community/social circles may be).

So yes, I stand by my prior assertion that Jews cannot by definition be bluebloods and they are only seldom old money. I dated an old money Jewish Philly girl once upon a midnight dreary (her ancestors were the first Jews to settle in Cleveland, OH), though her old money roots came by way of Chicago. Her more local Philly/Atlantic City Jewish roots derived from the shtetl.

[stylistvg]

According to Merriam Webster dictionary
blue blood noun
: membership in a royal or socially important family

: a member of a royal or socially important family

So umm..... no mention that one must be a WASP

My mother married into a prominent jewish Philly family in 1940, they had been there since before the turn of the century.