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Old 03-11-2014, 01:06 PM
 
364 posts, read 619,744 times
Reputation: 305

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dabottom View Post
Not many jobs offer a wage that someone can live on in 2014 so its not just fast food and retail
Not many jobs offer a living wage, so your solution is to maintain the status quo because of capitalism! and freedom!!

Infallible logic.

 
Old 03-11-2014, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
166 posts, read 228,207 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcguirk View Post
Not many jobs offer a living wage, so your solution is to maintain the status quo because of capitalism! and freedom!!

Infallible logic.
LOL! I'm all for cities to debate what they think their minimum wage should be, not the Federal Govt. I think this wouldn't be a problem if we had people in Philly just vote on what they want. Since this place is more democratic, it's probably going to pass. Then we can see if the benefits outweigh the negatives and other places can follow to get similar results. Although I do think it's a shame when major companies don't pay their workers more than what the minimum wage is now. 65% of small business owners pay their workers more than the minimum wage. I think $15 is a little bit too excessive. Try raising it to $10.10 like the president suggested and see if you need to raise it more.

The only problem I see is that people in those job positions are going to adapt to having too much money and they won't try to move themselves out of the crappy job they have at the moment. And it's already kinda hard to get a job in most minimum wage places today.
 
Old 03-11-2014, 04:32 PM
 
Location: southern california
57,831 posts, read 76,774,881 times
Reputation: 51150
this happened in the late 60's in america, steel workers and auto worker assisted by strong afro american union leaders who came from the civil rights movement--- demanded higher wages and benefits. the steel mills and auto factories moved to asia.
i predict mcdonalds becoming an automat very very soon. the main accomplishment of anti business movements in america is to move them out of the country. civil rights is used for many things other that for what it was intended.
 
Old 03-11-2014, 04:57 PM
FBJ FBJ started this thread
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
39,606 posts, read 51,790,193 times
Reputation: 9451
Quote:
Originally Posted by criedman101 View Post
LOL! I'm all for cities to debate what they think their minimum wage should be, not the Federal Govt. I think this wouldn't be a problem if we had people in Philly just vote on what they want. Since this place is more democratic, it's probably going to pass. Then we can see if the benefits outweigh the negatives and other places can follow to get similar results. Although I do think it's a shame when major companies don't pay their workers more than what the minimum wage is now. 65% of small business owners pay their workers more than the minimum wage. I think $15 is a little bit too excessive. Try raising it to $10.10 like the president suggested and see if you need to raise it more.

The only problem I see is that people in those job positions are going to adapt to having too much money and they won't try to move themselves out of the crappy job they have at the moment. And it's already kinda hard to get a job in most minimum wage places today.

Which has always been weird. A online application to work at Mcdonald's
 
Old 03-12-2014, 01:49 AM
 
364 posts, read 619,744 times
Reputation: 305
Are you arguing that it's hard to get a minimum wage job because one has to apply online?
 
Old 03-12-2014, 05:41 AM
FBJ FBJ started this thread
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
39,606 posts, read 51,790,193 times
Reputation: 9451
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcguirk View Post
Are you arguing that it's hard to get a minimum wage job because one has to apply online?
Yes, jobs that pay a lot more only require you to email your resume
 
Old 03-12-2014, 06:31 AM
 
434 posts, read 1,152,778 times
Reputation: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesia View Post
You need to correct for inflation. $1 does not equal $1 throughout time.

Because the minimum wage does not keep pace with inflation the REAL value of the minimum wage is much lower than it should be. In 1990, $3.35 is the same as $5.74 in 2010. That's not a big change compared to 2010's 7.25.

We have to increase the minimum wage, and tie it to inflation. Otherwise, everyone's wages will decrease in value over time, while at the same time data shows we are all far more productive than the past.
Just to take this train of thought a little bit further...

If you go back to 1960 - arguably when a "middle class" existed and we didn't see today's extreme dichotomy between "haves" and "haves not" - and adjust for productivity, today's minimum wage should be $21.72 per hour. Or if you adjust minimum wage over this same period to grow at the same pace as earnings for the top 1%, the minimum wage would be closer to $33 per hour.

I don't think anyone is arguing minimum wage should be $22 or more, but these metrics should be helpful to demonstrate it is currently too low, and should be higher.

Take a few minutes to watch Elizabeth Warren at this Senate committee meeting (forward to about 1:19:40), as she questions Dr. Arindrajit Dube from the Department of Economics at UMass Amherst. It includes this:

"If we started in 1960 and we said that as productivity goes up, that is as workers are producing more, then the minimum wage is going to go up the same. And if that were the case then the minimum wage today would be about $22 an hour. So my question is Mr. Dube, with a minimum wage of $7.25 an hour, what happened to the other $14.75? It sure didn't go to the worker."

She also presents evidence that, in reality, raising the minimum wage does NOT negatively impact the availability of jobs. In fact, a higher minimum wage reduces turnover, reduces vacancies (not jobs), and reduces cost for employers.

Here's the link:
US Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, & Pensions: Hearings - Hearing
 
Old 03-12-2014, 06:31 AM
 
8,048 posts, read 18,469,927 times
Reputation: 2738
Quote:
Originally Posted by criedman101 View Post
LOL! I'm all for cities to debate what they think their minimum wage should be, not the Federal Govt. I think this wouldn't be a problem if we had people in Philly just vote on what they want. Since this place is more democratic, it's probably going to pass. Then we can see if the benefits outweigh the negatives and other places can follow to get similar results. Although I do think it's a shame when major companies don't pay their workers more than what the minimum wage is now. 65% of small business owners pay their workers more than the minimum wage. I think $15 is a little bit too excessive. Try raising it to $10.10 like the president suggested and see if you need to raise it more.

The only problem I see is that people in those job positions are going to adapt to having too much money and they won't try to move themselves out of the crappy job they have at the moment. And it's already kinda hard to get a job in most minimum wage places today.
Which rate are you defining as "too much money": $10.10 or $15.00? If it's the latter, you may have a case if it's an individual supporting themselves although, as discussed earlier I think, many people are raising families on minimum wage jobs. If it's the former, I don't see that as being excessive in any scenario.
 
Old 03-12-2014, 07:00 AM
 
8,048 posts, read 18,469,927 times
Reputation: 2738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
this happened in the late 60's in america, steel workers and auto worker assisted by strong afro american union leaders who came from the civil rights movement--- demanded higher wages and benefits. the steel mills and auto factories moved to asia.
i predict mcdonalds becoming an automat very very soon. the main accomplishment of anti business movements in america is to move them out of the country. civil rights is used for many things other that for what it was intended.
I'm not sure raising the minimal wage is a civil rights issue per se although it would have a particularly positive effect on the disproportionate % of poorer Blacks, Hispanics and Asians in Philadelphia proper.

I can see self-checkout coming to McDonalds maybe but I don't think people would accept returning to the days of Horn and Hardart and order a meal that isn't freshly made. At that point, they may as well go to Wawa or their local supermarket for the same pre-made foods.

Whether steel and auto workers cut their proverbial noses off to spite their faces is debatable. Certainly in the auto industry, management decisions played a role. And it doesn't help that said overseas factories were willing to provide labor at wages that can be less than the US minimum and working conditions below what would be acceptable in the US. Putting this back into a Philadelphia context, the labor unions that work at the Convention Center aren't doing themselves or the city - any favors with negotiated work rules that can complicate simpler tasks or otherwise make the cost of putting on a show much higher than it may need to be. As it is, American auto and steel workers make earn more than minimum wage so that isn't necessarily relevant to the discussion.

Basically, it is difficult for one to live on $7.25/hour in the city let alone the suburbs. Conditions don't necessarily get much better at $10.10/hour either but two people might be able eke out an existence in a 1BR apartment. The job market in Philly proper has never quite boomed during the last 20-25 years even in a better economy. Going by the theory of "a rising tide lifts all boats", I believe much of that wage increase would go right back into the economy which would therefore create more opportunities and, eventually, a higher quality of life.
 
Old 03-13-2014, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
166 posts, read 228,207 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone509 View Post
Which rate are you defining as "too much money": $10.10 or $15.00? If it's the latter, you may have a case if it's an individual supporting themselves although, as discussed earlier I think, many people are raising families on minimum wage jobs. If it's the former, I don't see that as being excessive in any scenario.
I honestly can't explain why, but it doesn't seem right to me to have the guy flipping burgers at McDonalds to get paid $15 an hour. That's not a real job to me, and I could careless if you made crappy choices in life. YOU chose to have children and drop out of school, then that's YOUR problem, not your company's. You just can't go around forcing people to pay the less fortunate. A lot of people coming out of college already find it hard to get employment, and then end up at jobs like this. If you're paying them $600 a week then they'll never try and seek employment elsewhere because you're already paying them more money than they've ever had before.

Last edited by criedman101; 03-13-2014 at 05:44 PM..
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