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Old 03-13-2014, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
166 posts, read 228,207 times
Reputation: 64

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone509 View Post
I'm not sure raising the minimal wage is a civil rights issue per se although it would have a particularly positive effect on the disproportionate % of poorer Blacks, Hispanics and Asians in Philadelphia proper.

I can see self-checkout coming to McDonalds maybe but I don't think people would accept returning to the days of Horn and Hardart and order a meal that isn't freshly made. At that point, they may as well go to Wawa or their local supermarket for the same pre-made foods.

Whether steel and auto workers cut their proverbial noses off to spite their faces is debatable. Certainly in the auto industry, management decisions played a role. And it doesn't help that said overseas factories were willing to provide labor at wages that can be less than the US minimum and working conditions below what would be acceptable in the US. Putting this back into a Philadelphia context, the labor unions that work at the Convention Center aren't doing themselves or the city - any favors with negotiated work rules that can complicate simpler tasks or otherwise make the cost of putting on a show much higher than it may need to be. As it is, American auto and steel workers make earn more than minimum wage so that isn't necessarily relevant to the discussion.

Basically, it is difficult for one to live on $7.25/hour in the city let alone the suburbs. Conditions don't necessarily get much better at $10.10/hour either but two people might be able eke out an existence in a 1BR apartment. The job market in Philly proper has never quite boomed during the last 20-25 years even in a better economy. Going by the theory of "a rising tide lifts all boats", I believe much of that wage increase would go right back into the economy which would therefore create more opportunities and, eventually, a higher quality of life.
But why is it the company's responsibility to hire these people. No where on their contract does it say: "we'll provide you with housing, clothes, and food if you apply for this job". They knew the terms and the conditions and if they don't like it they can go to college and get a better degree in another field and use the job as BACK UP to help pay off student loans. What do you think Welfare is for?

 
Old 03-13-2014, 08:50 PM
 
8,048 posts, read 18,469,927 times
Reputation: 2738
Quote:
Originally Posted by criedman101 View Post
But why is it the company's responsibility to hire these people.
I'm not sure where you thought I suggested that a company should hire any particular person.


Quote:
No where on their contract does it say: "we'll provide you with housing, clothes, and food if you apply for this job".
True; fair enough.

Quote:
They knew the terms and the conditions and if they don't like it they can go to college and get a better degree in another field and use the job as BACK UP to help pay off student loans. What do you think Welfare is for?
With the possible exception of CCP, many Philadelphians who have worked at or near the minimum wage don't have the means to obtain post-secondary education without taking out an abundance of loans. (The need for student loans would probably apply to "80%" of Philadelphians, no matter what their economic status.) I did a search and the information I found on PA's Department of Welfare site wasn't clear on whether welfare recipients can receive tuition assistance for college or trade school.
 
Old 03-13-2014, 09:11 PM
 
8,048 posts, read 18,469,927 times
Reputation: 2738
Quote:
Originally Posted by criedman101 View Post
I honestly can't explain why, but it doesn't seem right to me to have the guy flipping burgers at McDonalds to get paid $15 an hour.
I take it that you're taking the $15/hour idea seriously, then.

Quote:
That's not a real job to me, and I could careless if you made crappy choices in life. YOU chose to have children and drop out of school, then that's YOUR problem, not your company's. You just can't go around forcing people to pay the less fortunate.
I think you're making a bunch of assumptions about a Philadelphia minimum wage employee that aren't necessarily true. There are surely reasonably upstanding people who could not or would not choose to pursue a post-secondary education. And then there are those like how you mention below.

Quote:
A lot of people coming out of college already find it hard to get employment, and then end up at jobs like this. If you're paying them $600 a week then they'll never try and seek employment elsewhere because you're already paying them more money than they've ever had before.
I can only stress once again my belief that the $15/hour idea is only a negotiating tactic. If they started at $10'hour, then we'd be talking about $9 or even $8 an hour as a settling point, which would have made protesting a waste of time IMO. As I said before, I believe the minimum wage will eventually rise to $10/hour, a decent if not ideal improvement.
 
Old 03-13-2014, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista
2,472 posts, read 3,486,213 times
Reputation: 2202
Quote:
Originally Posted by criedman101 View Post
But why is it the company's responsibility to hire these people. No where on their contract does it say: "we'll provide you with housing, clothes, and food if you apply for this job". They knew the terms and the conditions and if they don't like it they can go to college and get a better degree in another field and use the job as BACK UP to help pay off student loans. What do you think Welfare is for?
College education in America, while more attainable than ever, still has a very significant barriers in place for the poorest people in America. This is especially true of urban minorities, college simply is not an option for a lot of people in Philadelphia, they simply are unable to obtain the non federally subsidized loans that many students still need to obtain in order to pay for what is left after taking scholarships and federal assistance into account.

Plus, being in possession of a college degree isn't exactly a solution to these problems in many cases. A third of all people working at McDonald's have a college degree. That's 250,000 people at McDonalds alone who have a college degree. Think about all the people in America who have a degree and are still making less than $15 an hour. Millions of people.

Speaking frankly, not everyone I've met is bright or friendly or hard working. Some people can climb the ladders and some can't. Some are just unlucky. But do you really think the people deserve to not even be paid enough to live without government assistance?

None of these people are losers, these are all people who get up and go to work. It's disgusting to think of how many people in this country who will work their entire lives and yet will never have enough.

And what many in this thread do not understand is that raising the minimum wage to $15 is also really good news for just about anyone making more than $15 an hour. If the skills and training a worker possesses currently give them a salary roughly 500% more than a McDonalds employee, that difference in perceived value remains the same when a new minimum wage is introduced. The market will eventually reach an equilibrium and wages will rise for everyone except for those at the very top and investors.
 
Old 03-14-2014, 06:20 AM
 
8,048 posts, read 18,469,927 times
Reputation: 2738
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011 View Post
College education in America, while more attainable than ever, still has a very significant barriers in place for the poorest people in America. This is especially true of urban minorities, college simply is not an option for a lot of people in Philadelphia, they simply are unable to obtain the non federally subsidized loans that many students still need to obtain in order to pay for what is left after taking scholarships and federal assistance into account.

Plus, being in possession of a college degree isn't exactly a solution to these problems in many cases. A third of all people working at McDonald's have a college degree. That's 250,000 people at McDonalds alone who have a college degree. Think about all the people in America who have a degree and are still making less than $15 an hour. Millions of people.

Speaking frankly, not everyone I've met is bright or friendly or hard working. Some people can climb the ladders and some can't. Some are just unlucky. But do you really think the people deserve to not even be paid enough to live without government assistance?

None of these people are losers, these are all people who get up and go to work. It's disgusting to think of how many people in this country who will work their entire lives and yet will never have enough.

And what many in this thread do not understand is that raising the minimum wage to $15 is also really good news for just about anyone making more than $15 an hour. If the skills and training a worker possesses currently give them a salary roughly 500% more than a McDonalds employee, that difference in perceived value remains the same when a new minimum wage is introduced. The market will eventually reach an equilibrium and wages will rise for everyone except for those at the very top and investors.
Thanks for your thoughts...especially rggarding the % of college grads working at McDonald's. It was very enlightening.
 
Old 03-14-2014, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
166 posts, read 228,207 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone509 View Post
I can only stress once again my belief that the $15/hour idea is only a negotiating tactic. If they started at $10'hour, then we'd be talking about $9 or even $8 an hour as a settling point, which would have made protesting a waste of time IMO. As I said before, I believe the minimum wage will eventually rise to $10/hour, a decent if not ideal improvement.
Agreed.
 
Old 03-14-2014, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
166 posts, read 228,207 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by phillies2011 View Post
College education in America, while more attainable than ever, still has a very significant barriers in place for the poorest people in America. This is especially true of urban minorities, college simply is not an option for a lot of people in Philadelphia, they simply are unable to obtain the non federally subsidized loans that many students still need to obtain in order to pay for what is left after taking scholarships and federal assistance into account.

Plus, being in possession of a college degree isn't exactly a solution to these problems in many cases. A third of all people working at McDonald's have a college degree. That's 250,000 people at McDonalds alone who have a college degree. Think about all the people in America who have a degree and are still making less than $15 an hour. Millions of people.

Speaking frankly, not everyone I've met is bright or friendly or hard working. Some people can climb the ladders and some can't. Some are just unlucky. But do you really think the people deserve to not even be paid enough to live without government assistance?

None of these people are losers, these are all people who get up and go to work. It's disgusting to think of how many people in this country who will work their entire lives and yet will never have enough.

And what many in this thread do not understand is that raising the minimum wage to $15 is also really good news for just about anyone making more than $15 an hour. If the skills and training a worker possesses currently give them a salary roughly 500% more than a McDonalds employee, that difference in perceived value remains the same when a new minimum wage is introduced. The market will eventually reach an equilibrium and wages will rise for everyone except for those at the very top and investors.
Yeah, I do think they should be payed enough not to have to be dependent on government assistance. Maybe we could determine how much the minimum wage should be based upon the cost of living index.
 
Old 03-14-2014, 09:48 PM
 
364 posts, read 619,744 times
Reputation: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by criedman101 View Post
Yeah, I do think they should be payed enough not to have to be dependent on government assistance. Maybe we could determine how much the minimum wage should be based upon the cost of living index.
That would be called a "living wage".
 
Old 03-14-2014, 09:56 PM
FBJ FBJ started this thread
 
Location: Tall Building down by the river
39,606 posts, read 51,790,193 times
Reputation: 9451
First of all I don't understand why someone who just graduated college and still living at home would even look in the direction of Mcdonald's. After being in college for 4 years you come out and settle for a crappy fast food job?

I mean no college grad should be applying to those types of jobs. So many other jobs a college grad can apply to besides something like that

Front Desk Clerk
Administrative Assistant
Customer Service Representative
Sales Rep at a Cell Phone store

Mcdonald jobs are for

teens
ex-cons
highschool dropouts
 
Old 03-14-2014, 10:39 PM
 
364 posts, read 619,744 times
Reputation: 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by dabottom View Post
First of all I don't understand why someone who just graduated college and still living at home would even look in the direction of Mcdonald's. After being in college for 4 years you come out and settle for a crappy fast food job?

I mean no college grad should be applying to those types of jobs. So many other jobs a college grad can apply to besides something like that

Front Desk Clerk
Administrative Assistant
Customer Service Representative
Sales Rep at a Cell Phone store

Mcdonald jobs are for

teens
ex-cons
highschool dropouts
Who are you to dictate who works where?
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