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Old 12-20-2008, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,672 posts, read 34,767,703 times
Reputation: 11780

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Quote:
Originally Posted by solibs View Post
I also read a lot of your posts, most of which are insightful
Either you are damning me with faint praise or praising me with faint damnation. Oh well.

Quote:
but often it seems that you erase the line between the disadvantages of being poor and the disadvantages of being black (i'm using disadvantage as a euphemism for discrimination). I take issue with that because it gives the impression that these things only happen to black people and that they only happen to them because they're black, not because they're poor.
OK. I can see where you are coming from, and with this sentence alone the essence of why you are so wrong on this subject. I have not mentioned the word "poverty" in any of my posts on this. You are assuming that 1. I am poor 2. I believe that discrimination against blacks is because of their poverty and 3. I believe all blacks are poor.

Quote:
It seems to me that you hold on to the black intellectual notion, and maybe it's because you've lived around upper-middle class or rich white people for most of your life, that white people have a special passport on their foreheads. That all you need to be is white and you're a member of the club.
Well. the only white people I have known have been upper-middle class or rich. So what? That means nothing at all. Fact remains, whether you want to deal with it or not, that whites are the economically dominant class in this society. They hold the vast majority of the wealth, a wealth disproportionate to their share of the population. It also remains true that there are many whites who are not rich, and many who live in poverty. Nevertheless, whites are still accepted as the default, baseline ethnicity in this society, and overall, they are still the privileged class in America. All whites may not be member of the elite club, but they do hold most of the power and most of the cards, and their worth as humans still outweighs that of blacks, no matter what their economic status.


Quote:
As someone who (is white and) has had to put up with a lot of BS from cops, in stores, at work, because my looks don't match my pedigree I find it insulting and naive.
This statement gets right down to the crux of what I have been stating. From your posts on this forum, I get the impression that you are a highly educated white person who comes from "class" and "affluence," but that you have chosen to reject said privilege and live among the commoners, all while not forgetting that you are, deep down, one of the "better" class of humanity. Stop there. Let's break down the sentence I bolded. Your looks don't match your pedigree? Well, you have chosen to look the way you do. If you decided to change things so that your looks did match your pedigree, I'm sure the cops and the rest of White America would welcome you and your Louis Winthorpesque pedigree right back into the club where you actually belong. Well guess what? I'm black. I didn't choose that. And my looks can't match my pedigree, because I'm not allowed to have a pedigree. If I dressed like (what people perceive as) a thug, I would be a suspect because I would be someone to fear. If I dressed like I had money and tried to move into one of those wonderful white suburbs, I would be a suspect because a black man is not supposed to have the things I have. There is no way to win under these rules. You may have education and "pedigree," but you, my brother, are clueless.

Quote:
Trying to make the discrimination and disadvantages one experiences because they're poor into a racial issue is what drives a wedge between poor people of all backgrounds and is what makes a lot of poor and lower-middle class white folks skeptical when confronted with issues with real racial overtones.
Again, where did I say anything about being poor? I certainly am not.

Quote:
Rather than blurring the line between being poor and being black we should be highlighting it and making it easier for people to acknowledge.
The only blurring is being done by you.


Quote:
If you say "Here's a black guy with an MBA who makes six figures. These people refused to sell him a house because of his color." No reasonable person will fail to see the injustice in that.
Good. Because that has happened to me.


Quote:
If you say, "here's a black neighborhood that's in bad shape. It's falling apart because banks won't lend money to black people." A lot of black people might buy that. But any white person who has ever been turned down for a loan and/or who is watching their neighborhood decline is going to see right through it and only become more resentful.
Why? If a white person is turned down for a loan, it won't be for racial reasons.

 
Old 12-20-2008, 08:50 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,780 posts, read 18,921,816 times
Reputation: 2329
my dearest serpant.. Maybe I was thinking of another fishtown. It USED to be working class white but it ain't no mo..

Quote:
Originally Posted by serpent_of_old View Post
dearest frankie,
you must have just moved to earth
everyone who breathes AND knows that Fishtown exists knows this...the still very current foundation of fishtown, not the new white 20 somethings that made it psuedo-cool 2 years ago
 
Old 12-20-2008, 10:52 PM
 
2,783 posts, read 6,520,483 times
Reputation: 865
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankgn87 View Post
huh? Fishtown white? When was the last time you were there?
but even IF it was all white(like say.. Port Richmond) any black person can walk thru it without fear of attack. If your white, try that in an all black hood like North Philly. Be reading about your body in the paper.
I'm still alive. Stop with this trash already, it's getting old...
 
Old 12-21-2008, 01:54 AM
 
Location: university city
344 posts, read 738,775 times
Reputation: 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunil's Dad View Post
This statement gets right down to the crux of what I have been stating. From your posts on this forum, I get the impression that you are a highly educated white person who comes from "class" and "affluence," but that you have chosen to reject said privilege and live among the commoners, all while not forgetting that you are, deep down, one of the "better" class of humanity. Stop there. Let's break down the sentence I bolded. Your looks don't match your pedigree? Well, you have chosen to look the way you do. If you decided to change things so that your looks did match your pedigree, I'm sure the cops and the rest of White America would welcome you and your Louis Winthorpesque pedigree right back into the club where you actually belong. Well guess what? I'm black. I didn't choose that. And my looks can't match my pedigree, because I'm not allowed to have a pedigree. If I dressed like (what people perceive as) a thug, I would be a suspect because I would be someone to fear. If I dressed like I had money and tried to move into one of those wonderful white suburbs, I would be a suspect because a black man is not supposed to have the things I have. There is no way to win under these rules.
that is simply the outright truth, for many in philly
its like they are trying to definitely prove SOMETHING...to daddy bank owner? if they just give dude a hug, the dreads or the equivalent can be taken out and things peaced up
 
Old 12-21-2008, 10:00 AM
 
8,048 posts, read 18,469,927 times
Reputation: 2738
While this discussion has been mostly respectful, it has indeed gotten off-track from the original topic. Since the request get back on-topic was not heeded, unfortunately I feel the need to close the thread.

As mentioned before, this would make an excellent (albeit not new) discussion topic for the Politics & Other Controversies or Great Debates forums.
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