When Philly puts Pennsylvania on the map again... (Philadelphia, Washington: theater, university)

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

The Twin Cities and Philadelphia are both ranked Beta cities I believe.

Philadelphia is ranked Alpha- by GAWC. Minneapolis is ranked Beta.

GAWC World Cities - The World's Most Important Cities

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

Philadelphia is ranked Alpha- by GAWC. Minneapolis is ranked Beta.

GAWC World Cities - The World's Most Important Cities

That list you posted is pretty interesting and I am surprised to see Montreal, Berlin, and Vancouver listed as Betas. I would definitely bump these cities up to the next level. I also stand by my previous post that Minneapolis is world class and this list even supports this by listing Seattle as a peer city.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

Philadelphia is ranked Alpha- by GAWC. Minneapolis is ranked Beta.

GAWC World Cities - The World's Most Important Cities

Fair enough, I think I was remembering a previous incarnation of the list that had Philly as Beta + and Minneapolis as Beta -.

[RightonWalnut]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

Fair enough, I think I was remembering a previous incarnation of the list that had Philly as Beta + and Minneapolis as Beta -.

Philly was historically an Alpha city, and was demoted to a Beta+ for a few years, but was upgraded back to Alpha- I think somewhere around 2012 or 2013

[TresChic314]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

You're not the only one. For that matter, I've actually been to Alabama several times, and the only way it reminded me of central Pennsylvania was the mountain ranges. I actually have a basis for comparison, unlike most of the *******s who believe in the "Philadelphia/Pittsburgh/Alabama" paradigm.

By the way, how is it that Minnesota can elect a lunatic like Michelle Bachmann and a moron like Pat Garofalo to public office and not get nearly the **** for it that Pennsylvania gets for Rick Santorum? At least Pennsylvania got rid of Santorum after they realized he's bat**** crazy.

Because Rick Santorum won a statewide election and Bachman and Garofalo are just members of the House.

[phillies2011]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

The Twin Cities and Philadelphia are both ranked Beta cities I believe. They have a few things in common, one big one being that they tend to live in the shadows of other places. Chicago being their version of New York, DC, and Boston (of course, things are also more spread out in the midwest - Chicago's a good 8 hours away - so you have a little more sense of Minneapolis being the sort of "center of the universe" for many folks - in my five years there without a car, I rarely left the city for things that weren't really big events - here I go to other cities and towns all the time).

Really, they are pretty similar in terms of opportunities people often associate with the city - cultural and social stuff. They're honestly pretty similar as far as public transit goes - Philadelphia has the obviously bigger and better system, but Minneapolis has a pretty efficient system that can serves the core of the city well for those without a car (and the expanded area for those commuting downtown) and is doing much better at making improvements. What the Twin Cities has is an amazing economy - a 5% unemployment rate versus our 11%, and a downtown that is a much clearer center of commerce for the region that ours is. The big key to understanding Minneapolis is that there is so much attention and energy is in the neighborhoods, as the downtown area doesn't have that big of a residential population. And it's not (although there is plenty) so heavily based on young folks as our greater Center City area, something I really enjoyed (never quite having fit in well with folks my own age).

Not to nay say on Philadelphia, I've enjoyed my time here more than I did in Minneapolis, although not in every category. But you'd think that Philadelphians, more than anybody, would be above acting as if other places were insignificant, since they're so often on the wrong side of that silliness.

Listen, I never said that Philadelphia is better than Minneapolis, or that Philly is world class. I happen to think that Philadelphia is a world class and I think that it's size, economic force, and cultural significance, both in the form of popular culture and its historic significance as the birthplace of modern democracy solidify that argument. Despite my belief that it is world class, I can understand if some disagreed. But while Minneapolis fares well for its size and I really think its a nice city, it is not world class. If Minneapolis is a world class city then there most be 10,000 world class cities in the world.

I'm sorry but being a nice, urban, livable city is great, but it doesn't automatically mean the city is world class. I mean just look at tourists, as nice as Minneapolis might be to live, there is not nearly as much interest in the city as even Philadelphia much less an undeniably world class city such as London or Paris.

Besides the whole Pennsyltucky thing is about politics and in politics in Pennsylvania and thus Philadelphia has a huge spotlight on it due to the fact that it is a swing state with a lot of electoral votes, Pa is after all twice the size of Minnesota.

So yea, in general people don't care about Minnesota. Not saying it's right, just saying it's the truth. Anyone elected in PA is a bigger deal that people elected in Minnesota because in general everything in s a bigger deal here.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by phillies2011

Listen, I never said that Philadelphia is better than Minneapolis, or that Philly is world class. I happen to think that Philadelphia is a world class and I think that it's size, economic force, and cultural significance, both in the form of popular culture and its historic significance as the birthplace of modern democracy solidify that argument. Despite my belief that it is world class, I can understand if some disagreed. But while Minneapolis fares well for its size and I really think its a nice city, it is not world class. If Minneapolis is a world class city then there most be 10,000 world class cities in the world.

I'm sorry but being a nice, urban, livable city is great, but it doesn't automatically mean the city is world class. I mean just look at tourists, as nice as Minneapolis might be to live, there is not nearly as much interest in the city as even Philadelphia much less an undeniably world class city such as London or Paris.

Besides the whole Pennsyltucky thing is about politics and in politics in Pennsylvania and thus Philadelphia has a huge spotlight on it due to the fact that it is a swing state with a lot of electoral votes, Pa is after all twice the size of Minnesota.

So yea, in general people don't care about Minnesota. Not saying it's right, just saying it's the truth. Anyone elected in PA is a bigger deal that people elected in Minnesota because in general everything in s a bigger deal here.

I'm still not so sure. Philadelphia has the 7th biggest GDP in America at 373.9, Minneapolis is 13th at 228. A quick search of "visitor" numbers shows 39 million for Philadelphia and 28 million for Minneapolis (both numbers possibly inflated). And we're talking about a metro area of 6 million as opposed to 3.5 million. Minneapolis has more passengers coming through its airport, but it's also a big hub. As far as tourist attractions go, you have to remember a lot of people also visit the Mall of America every year for some reason (an annoying place to be, but hey, so is 6th and Market at the height of the summer). As far as tourism to the actual city of Minneapolis - there's a much bigger presence of business travelers as opposed to the typical lines at the liberty bell. Minneapolis consistently ranks high as far as education, culture, and economics goes.

By the way, I never used the term world class city here. I'd probably agree with you that Minneapolis isn't really a world class city. On the other hand, I'm a native of and continual visitor to New York City, and for a long time I judged places by that experience (and probably still do, although I dislike the "New York is the only place that matters" ideology). To me, Philadelphia and Minneapolis both rank among the top second tier cities in America. Philadelphia has a ton of unmet potential, particularly in its underutilized rapid transit network, and it could be a world class city one day, whereas Minneapolis kind of fully lives up to its potential in a lot of ways and has less room for growth in the "big picture" without making really big changes (which it actually is trying to do).

One thing you have to consider is Philadelphia and Pennsylvania seem important to you because you live here, and it benefits somewhat from being in the NE megalopolis. In Minnesota, Minnesota seems important (and Chicago seems very, very important - one thing I forgot is how rarely you hear about Chicago on the east coast, whereas in the midwest its like the center of the world) . When I told friends and co-workers I was moving to Philadelphia years ago, I got a lot of blank stares, what's there's, and a few I was there once is it any better's. But you know, one of the fun things about living in a bunch of places is that you see the ways in which attitudes are alike as well as difference.

[rotodome]

Originally Posted by Summersm343

Philly was historically an Alpha city, and was demoted to a Beta+ for a few years, but was upgraded back to Alpha- I think somewhere around 2012 or 2013

Not entirely accurate, unless you are using a different definition for what constituted "Alpha", etc, before that specific ranking/terminology was in use.
Philly was actually off of the list entirely in the late 90's (when the GaWC list was created), then was up to a Gamma through most of the 00's, then jumped up to an Alpha minus in 2010-2011.

[trackstar13]

I believe there are many reasons that Minneapolis/St. Paul are world class, but here is one to get all of you thinking:

The Twin Cities metro area is home to the headquarters of 17 Fortune 500 companies, which is more than Atlanta, Boston, Denver, and Philadelphia (10), and just short of Washington D.C. (18).

Minneapolis: 17
17 UnitedHealth Group $110.6 Billion
36 Target $73.3 Billion
61 Best Buy $45.1 Billion
69 CHS $40.6 Billion
86 Supervalu $36.1 Billion
101 3M $29.9 Billion
132 US Bancorp $22.2 Billion
169 General Mills $16.7 Billion
172 Medtronic $16.5 Billion
194 Land O'Lakes $14.1 Billion
229 Ecolab $11.8 Billion
237 CH Robinson Worldwide $11.4 Billion
246 Mosaic $11.1 Billion
263 Ameriprise Financial $10.3 Billion
266 Xcel Energy $10.1 Billion
457 St Jude Medical $5.5 Billion
500 Nash-Finch $4.8 Billion

//www.city-data.com/forum/city-...ncombined.html

Fortune 500 2013: Annual ranking of America's largest corporations from Fortune Magazine

[Blackjack2000]

Originally Posted by trackstar13

I believe there are many reasons that Minneapolis/St. Paul are world class, but here is one to get all of you thinking:

The Twin Cities metro area is home to the headquarters of 17 Fortune 500 companies, which is more than Atlanta, Boston, Denver, and Philadelphia (10), and just short of Washington D.C. (18).

Minneapolis: 17
17 UnitedHealth Group $110.6 Billion
36 Target $73.3 Billion
61 Best Buy $45.1 Billion
69 CHS $40.6 Billion
86 Supervalu $36.1 Billion
101 3M $29.9 Billion
132 US Bancorp $22.2 Billion
169 General Mills $16.7 Billion
172 Medtronic $16.5 Billion
194 Land O'Lakes $14.1 Billion
229 Ecolab $11.8 Billion
237 CH Robinson Worldwide $11.4 Billion
246 Mosaic $11.1 Billion
263 Ameriprise Financial $10.3 Billion
266 Xcel Energy $10.1 Billion
457 St Jude Medical $5.5 Billion
500 Nash-Finch $4.8 Billion

//www.city-data.com/forum/city-...ncombined.html

Fortune 500 2013: Annual ranking of America's largest corporations from Fortune Magazine

Right, and Delaware is more of a financial hub than NYC because that's where all the banks are chartered.