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I said it has professional sports teams. Sports teams are not something so unique that it causes people to move across the globe for the them (unless it's Man. U perhaps). That's not an "edge" Philadelphia has over Miami.
Wow, you are really hung up on that. Let me just state up front that I'm not claiming that any of these things are things thuat cause people to get up and move across oceans for. I'm simply claiming that they are nice things to do that not everyone has. Miami does not have an NHL team, and that matters. The NHL draws the world's best hockey players the same way MLB and NBA do for baseball and basketball. If you don't think that's exciting, you've not been to a Flyers hockey game.
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Right. How many people outside of the Philadelphia area watch the Mummers every year? The Rose Bowl Parade and the Macy's Day Parade may be world famous attractions, but not the Mummers.
I have no idea how many people watch the Mummers, but they are world famous, and their parade is nationally broadcast.
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Chicago, DC, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Boston all either definitely or arguably have better museums. There are only a handful of cities whose museums are "attractions" in the truest sense of the word anyway. The Louvre, British Museum, Vatican, the Met, Smithsonian, etc. Those museums--and maybe a few others--are the only ones with instant name recognition where nearly all visitors are going to create space in their itinerary for it.
DC for sure as the nation's captial and the home of the Smithsonian, the others I'm not so sure about. Perhaps a better way to say it is that outside of DC, which is a special situation, the museums are pretty incredible for a city it's size.
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Of course Philly is going to "beat" Miami when it comes to cool weather. That's like pointing out that Philly will beat London in cheesesteaks. I don't see what that has to do with "excitement."
The things that make NYC more exciting than Philly have less to do with the New York Philharmonic and Lincoln Center and more to do with its 7-day a week, glamorous, pumping social scene. You can go to an album release party, a fashion house party, a modeling agency party, screenwriters party, etc. all in one week, many of which you can meet or see some of the top behinds the scenes people in the industry. Not to mention that you can come across any number of movies or TV shows being filmed during a casual stroll in Lower Manhattan. At least that's what I would hope when people say NYC is more "exciting" than Philly.
Miami is similar in that expats move there from all corners of the globe specifically for the lifestyle it offers. I would say NY and LA are the only other cities where this is true.
ROFL, maybe that's where we're talking past each other. Let me just say upfront that there is no question that people who go to album release parties, fashion house parties, modeling agency parties, and screewriters parties will be happier in NYC or Miami than Philly. Frankly I don't roll in those circles and I have a hard time believing that a guy with 17k posts on this site in the last five years does either. I always said that if I made $500k or more I'd live in NYC in a heartbeat. But I don't, so in my view, Philly has more to offer.
Last edited by Blackjack2000; 10-23-2014 at 01:13 PM..
By "excitement," I would rank U.S. cities this way.
NYC
Cultural mecca. Iconic and glamorous. Celebrities, 7-day party scene, one of the world's four fashion capitals, music industry, film industry, models, wealth, tons of expats, etc. Makes visits to other East Coast cities feel a bit redundant for the foreign tourist since it has more transit, skyscrapers, vibrancy, etc.
Los Angeles
Similar to NYC with less international prestige across industries (except film, aerospace obviously). Tons of parties, expats, fast life, people move there to pursue Big Dreams, hot women, hot cars, tons of high profile events (Oscars, VMAs, Rose Bowl, etc.), Jack Nicholson, Kobe, Laker Girls, etc.
Miami
Celebrities, hot cars, hot parties, hotter women, VMAs, Spring Break, Latin cultural hub, tons and tons of expats from Britain, France, Sweden, Germany and Latin America, beaches, boat life, urban living by beach, etc.
Gap
San Francisco
Chicago
DC
Atlanta
Philadelphia
New York crowds out the other East Coast cities to a large extent. While people may like Center City or Back Bay urbanity, New York completely hogs the limelight here, and obviously sucks up a disproportionate amount of media attention, expats, and international tourism. If walkability, theater, restaurants and transit are your thing, then NYC has this in spades over everywhere else. Other cities on the EC offer an "NYC lite" experience when it comes to the aforementioned.
Same is true for Chicago to an extent.
San Francisco probably packs the most punch in terms of an overall world-class experience. But it's not in the same league as the Big Three.
I'm not even considering Vegas because it's more of a one-time destination than a place that offers an actual lifestyle that draws people in over an extended period of time.
Wow, you are really hung up on that. Let me just state up front that I'm not claiming that any of these things are things thuat cause people to get up and move across oceans for. I'm simply claiming that they are nice things to do that not everyone has. Miami does not have an NHL team, and that matters. The NHL draws the world's best hockey players the same way MLB and NBA do for baseball and basketball. If you don't think that's exciting, you've not been to a Flyers hockey game.
I don't see how that in any way makes a city more exciting. You can't see professional football in Los Angeles. Do you really think anybody would say Philadelphia is a more exciting city than Los Angeles because the Eagles are there?
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Originally Posted by Blackjack2000
I have no idea how many people watch the Mummers, but they are world famous, and their parade is nationally broadcast.
They are world famous in the Delaware Valley.
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Originally Posted by Blackjack2000
DC for sure as the nation's captial and the home of the Smithsonian, the others I'm not so sure about. Perhaps a better way to say it is that outside of DC, which is a special situation, the museums are pretty incredible for a city it's size.
They're not any more special than the museums in Boston (smaller than Philly), San Francisco, Los Angeles or Chicago. Philly is solid, not really a standout here.
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Originally Posted by Blackjack2000
ROFL, maybe that's where we're talking past each other. Let me just say upfront that there is no question that people who go to album release parties, fashion house parties, modeling agency parties, and screewriters parties will be happier in NYC or Miami than Philly. Frankly I don't roll in those circles and I have a hard time believing that a guy with 17k posts on this site in the last five years does either. I always said that if I made $500k or more I'd live in NYC in a heartbeat. But I don't, so in my view, Philly has more to offer.
Right. Because so many people in NYC make more than $500K per year. As a purely objective matter, Philly does not have "more to offer" than NYC no matter what your salary is.
The only real selling point Philly has over NYC is that it's "NYC on the cheap." There are certainly reasons to prefer Philly over NYC (like, for example, simply liking the look of the city), but there shouldn't be much debate about which city is more exciting.
New York crowds out the other East Coast cities to a large extent. While people may like Center City or Back Bay urbanity, New York completely hogs the limelight here, and obviously sucks up a disproportionate amount of media attention, expats, and international tourism. If walkability, theater, restaurants and transit are your thing, then NYC has this in spades over everywhere else. Other cities on the EC offer an "NYC lite" experience when it comes to the aforementioned.
Yes, no question about it. And no question that New Yorkers look down their nose at Philly, DC, and Boston. The appeal of Philly is that I can live in a city that offers NY flavor, live in the urban core, go to restaurants, go to shows, go to parties, all on a salary of $80-$100k. Try doing that in NYC.
BTW, I think your gap is in the wrong place. Miami may be more exciting than Philly, but it is far from NYC.
Yes, no question about it. And no question that New Yorkers look down their nose at Philly, DC, and Boston.
It's not so much that New Yorkers look down on everyone else, imo, and more that New Yorkers don't spend much time thinking about other cities. New York doesn't liken itself to other cities the way other American cities liken themselves to New York.
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Originally Posted by Blackjack2000
The appeal of Philly is that I can live in a city that offers NY flavor, live in the urban core, go to restaurants, go to shows, go to parties, all on a salary of $80-$100k. Try doing that in NYC.
Great, that's your preference. There are also people who prefer Raleigh over NYC. That has nothing to do with which cities are more exciting.
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Originally Posted by Blackjack2000
BTW, I think your gap is in the wrong place. Miami may be more exciting than Philly, but it is far from NYC.
What does the Global Cities index have to do with anything? That list doesn't measure "excitement." That's what we were discussing.
Miami offers a unique lifestyle (for an American city, anyway) that is attractive to many people, as evidenced by the huge number of European expats who call it home, or at least own a property there and spend a portion of their year down that way. Cities like Chicago, Boston, Philly, etc. don't really offer a lifestyle that's all that different from NYC. In fact, most of the things urbanists like about NYC--mass transit, density, walkability, diversity--is found in far less abundance in those cities. That's why I put Miami up there with LA and NYC. It's a totally different vibe, lifestyle, etc. whereas the lifestyle in those other cities will always draw comparisons to NYC, and invariably come up short.
Right. Because so many people in NYC make more than $500K per year. As a purely objective matter, Philly does not have "more to offer" than NYC no matter what your salary is.
The only real selling point Philly has over NYC is that it's "NYC on the cheap." There are certainly reasons to prefer Philly over NYC (like, for example, simply liking the look of the city), but there shouldn't be much debate about which city is more exciting.
There are tons of people in NYC making that kind of money. Certainly the folks that are going to an "album release party, a fashion house party, a modeling agency party, screenwriters party, etc. all in one week".
I personally make upper five figures, I have a 1,000 sq. foot apartment in a recently renovated South Philly rowhouse with vaulted ceilings and an outdoor space (about 2 miles South of City Hall). My share of the rent is $725 (one roomate). I park on the street for free (If you want to be pedantic I paid $25 for my resident's permit). I race yachts all summer long on the Delaware River, I fly out to Chicago to visit my sister's family every 3-4 months, I play ice hockey, and I go cruising on Chesapeake Bay a couple of times a year.
If you think NYC could offer all that on my salary you're on crack. I actually dated a girl from NYC in the spring. I was always taking the train up to see her because she couldn't afford to come down to Philly, her share of her apartment was $1,500 with one roomate. It was an old beat-up sixth floor walk up that looked like it hadn't been touched in 50 years.
My theory is that you have a better quality of life in Philly until about $500k/yr. Yes, you can live very comfortably in NYC on $250k, but you will live like a king in Philly.
There are tons of people in NYC making that kind of money. Certainly the folks that are going to an "album release party, a fashion house party, a modeling agency party, screenwriters party, etc. all in one week".
There aren't tons of people earning $500K anywhere. And you don't need big bucks to go to any of those parties. All it really requires is staying on top of email. Or being friends with a DJ or someone in that field. Or just being in the right place at the right time. During Fashion Week, there are all types of events that are free of charge, have free drinks and appetizers, give away neckties, cufflinks, etc. Some aren't any more exclusive than a standard happy hour for the local bar association.
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Originally Posted by Blackjack2000
If you think NYC could offer all of that on my salary you're on crack.
Where did I say that? I said NYC has more to offer and is a more exciting city. I never said it was cheap. A city can be cheaper than NYC, which Philadelphia is, and still have much less to offer than NYC--in terms of scale, kind, and quality.
I was always taking the train up to see her because she couldn't afford to come down to Philly, her share of her apartment was $1,500 with one roomate. It was an old beat-up sixth floor walk up that looked like it hadn't been touched in 50 years.
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Originally Posted by Blackjack2000
My theory is that you have a better quality of life in Philly until about $500k/yr. Yes, you can live very comfortably in NYC on $250k, but you will live like a king in Philly.
Well, that's good for you. For people who want to, say, write music video treatments or work for the UN, then Philly's lower COL is irrelevant. It's also irrelevant to the question of which city is more exciting. Most people know a whole lot of cities, including Philadelphia, are cheaper than NYC, London, Paris, etc., but they move to those cities anyway.
There aren't tons of people earning $500K anywhere. And you don't need big bucks to go to any of those parties. All it really requires is staying on top of email. Or being friends with a DJ or someone in that field. Or just being in the right place at the right time. During Fashion Week, there are all types of events that are free of charge, have free drinks and appetizers, give away neckties, cufflinks, etc. Some aren't any more exclusive than a standard happy hour for the local bar association.
Those modeling ageny parties, just walk right in
And yeah, there are lots of people making lots of money in NYC. Why do you think housing is so expensive?
Where did I say that? I said NYC has more to offer and is a more exciting city. I never said it was cheap. A city can be cheaper than NYC, which Philadelphia is, and still have much less to offer than NYC--in terms of scale, kind, and quality.
But that's the whole point. It doen't have more to offer me. Let's stop using the word "cheap", okay? I'm close to 90th percentile for income in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. I can't even come close to affording to live comfortably in NYC.
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Well, that's good for you. For people who want to, say, write music video treatments or work for the UN, then Philly's lower COL is irrelevant. It's also irrelevant to the question of which city is more exciting. Most people know a whole lot of cities, including Philadelphia, are cheaper than NYC, London, Paris, etc., but they move to those cities anyway.
Sure, in my opinion Philly is a great value, one of the best in the country, but people are free to live where they want.
Frankly, I've always found it a bit weird how obsessed with celebrity culture people in this country tend to be... especially since a large percentage of it is quite vapid.
Also, I'm fairly certain that when people say New York is more exciting than Philadelphia that they are not implicitly referring to their whirlwind life of modeling agency parties. I'm pretty sure New York City and its excitement extends far beyond that.
If living in the same city as Kobe Bryant qualifies as excitement, then I must be as lifeless as the horse that this thread has beaten to death.
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