Impressions of Dilworth Park (Philadelphia, Republic: transit, best, parks)

[pman]

Originally Posted by phillies2011

Yea I honestly kind of love it and this is the main reason why. City hall is my favorite building in the world.

My only complaint is that the water element is too large. I assume the water element takes up the exact same footprint as the ice rink but I think that is unnecessary, would find better implementation as more seating area for a larger cafe. Luckily expanding the size of the cafe and shrinking the water element to add seating are two changes that can easily be applied down the road. You would lose that extra seating in the winter but that's fine as less people will want to sit outside when it's 40 degrees.

Overall I love it though. It looks absolutely beautiful so far and can't wait to see the finished product. The bar is set high for the redesigned love park.

not going to happen. I'm going to guess that both the rink and fountain remain popular

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by pman

the plaza used to be the city's greatest train station separated from city hall by two southbound lanes of broad st. dilworth knocked the station down and moved those lanes to 15th creating a giant obstacle. I tend to agree, slimming down 15th should be a long term goal involving expanded regional rail service, two way arch to broad (not forcing everyone to 15th)

Thanks for the history. I knew the train station was there but didn't realize it was only two lanes before. They were talking a year ago about making some protected bike lanes run down Market. It probably won't happen, but as a part of that project, they could make one of those a protected bike lane. It would be much less of an obstacle. Of course, I'm not sure how heavy traffic is there during rush hour...

[phillies2011]

Originally Posted by pman

not going to happen. I'm going to guess that both the rink and fountain remain popular

remain popular? I've been there a number of days now, some of them very hot and there was hardly anyone in the water element at all. I like the water element and I think it's swell and all but I find it hard to believe we'll see that whole space filled with children playing in the water on any type of even remotely consistent basis. Keep half of it or even more. But some of that space would be better utilized as seating.

The ice rink doesn't even exist yet. I think it'll be great hit, but I think it's a bit premature to call it "popular".

[kidphilly]

is Dilworth meant to be a gathering place or a worthy front door?

The latter seems executed well and think for select events (and think the ice rink will be very popular) it will also function well.

Best news is the main junction of our subway system is dramatically improved and a worthy plaza for a world class building was executed well.

[pman]

Originally Posted by phillies2011

remain popular? I've been there a number of days now, some of them very hot and there was hardly anyone in the water element at all. I like the water element and I think it's swell and all but I find it hard to believe we'll see that whole space filled with children playing in the water on any type of even remotely consistent basis. Keep half of it or even more. But some of that space would be better utilized as seating.
The ice rink doesn't even exist yet. I think it'll be great hit, but I think it's a bit premature to call it "popular".

I've been there as well on hot days and can Confirm, yes, children were playing in the water.
Well see if you're right that the rink won't be popular but based on how crowded penns landing is, I expect success.
The front door to city hall is north broad that's how it was designed.

[phillies2011]

Originally Posted by pman

I've been there as well on hot days and can Confirm, yes, children were playing in the water.
Well see if you're right that the rink won't be popular but based on how crowded penns landing is, I expect success.
The front door to city hall is north broad that's how it was designed.

? I said I thought the ice rink would be popular. I just said it's probably premature to call something that doesn't exist yet popular.

I saw children playing in the water element. It was however not enough children to justify a football field worth of water jets.

I also said I loved the park.

[pman]

Originally Posted by phillies2011

? I said I thought the ice rink would be popular. I just said it's probably premature to call something that doesn't exist yet popular.

I saw children playing in the water element. It was however not enough children to justify a football field worth of water jets.

I also said I loved the park.

there have been maybe two hot days since it opened. I don't think you know how big a football field really is. I think it's great to have a space that can change with the seasons

[phillies2011]

Originally Posted by pman

there have been maybe two hot days since it opened. I don't think you know how big a football field really is. I think it's great to have a space that can change with the seasons

I'm so sorry I ever criticized the size of water element. Clearly it's very dear to your heart.

[pman]

Originally Posted by phillies2011

I'm so sorry I ever criticized the size of water element. Clearly it's very dear to your heart.

you should know better than to criticize the size of a man's water element

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

is Dilworth meant to be a gathering place or a worthy front door?

The latter seems executed well and think for select events (and think the ice rink will be very popular) it will also function well.

I've been following this thread closely, and kidphilly's post got me to re-think things. My first approach to the new Dilworth was via its back door (more on that later), so I decided to start my approach from 18th and Market and make my way down. Entering at the northwest corner, I felt the entrance was impressive and gave off, for lack of better words, a "big city" vibe:



Also, I was glad to note that there were plenty of people enjoying the "park" around 1:30 in the afternoon:





And it also seemed as if someone has been reading the thread, responding to concerns that there is not enough greenspace:



The banners on the fences surrounding the construction area are now down and while I can see where the lawn will go, the size of the planned lawn strikes me as under-balanced in contrast with the overall volume of granite. Perhaps once the lawn opens, I will see that the greenspace is more in balance that my current estimate.

Finally, I want to get back to my point about the "park's" front door and back door. When approached from the City Hall courtyard, as I did on my fist visit, it still hits me as a mass of hard surface:



As a last observation, you'll note I've been putting the work "park" in quotations. I think part of my problem is my mental model of what constitutes a park. Sister Cities feels like a park to me - softer surfaces, quiet corners to linger in, etc. In contrast, the new Dilworth stills strikes me as a plaza - a stately space one passes through on their way to somewhere else. If the project had been marketed as a makeover of the plaza rather than a transition of the plaza to a park, I may have had a whole different set of expectations and not feel a touch of disappointment. In fact, I may have been "wowed" because it it is a clear winner compared with the old space. In that context, there is much to laud about the makeover.

Whether or not the greenspace that opens in the fall changes my impressions remains to be seen. Regardless, like pretty much everyone here, I am eager to see the plaza turned into a skating rink once the cold sets in.