Does the Philadelphia metro area get short-changed? (Allentown, Lancaster: employment, organic)

[asiandudeyo]

Originally Posted by gottaq

^ lol yes, i was aware of all of those points. i was specifically referencing TRENTON NJ area, which is much closer to Philly, yet is not considered part of the philly metro area. it is considered the new york metro area. because a lot of people by trenton commute to manhattan. but my question was, do a lot of people around trenton also commute to philly, since its so close, and shouldnt it also be considered part of the philly metro? same with the lehigh valley.. it's technically closer to philly than nyc..

Opps sorry

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by stuckinsj

Trenton is part of NYC MSA because its in Mercer County. Mercer County is much more influenced by northern NJ than by South east pa.

Its really all about people driving around North Jersey for work.

The vast majority of commuters from Mercer commute within Central Jersey(Middlesex,Somerset,Hunterdon). In fact I believe based on the 2000 census data more people from Mercer commuted to South Jersey/Bucks than the North Jersey Counties. Burlington and Bucks had 4000 commuters each coming in from Mercer.Whereas the North Jersey Counties combined had about 1/2 of that total.

I strongly disagree about Mercer being more influenced by North Jersey/NYC than Bucks County/S Jesey/Philly. The vast majority of the population(75%) live in the Trenton urban area which is right across the narrow Delaware River from Morrisville Bucks County. Maybe and its a stretch but perhaps parts of NE Mercer have a stronger North Jersey vibe but its pretty rural in those parts, people are few and far between..

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by rainrock

What I am saying is that Allentown and NYC definitely Are Not part of the same metro. If any msa should get credit for Allentown it should be Philly not NYC. Even stronger is the Trenton ties

I've got one thing - Allentown has way better commuter bus service to New York City than to Philadelphia. There are about 30 round bus trips per day from Allentown and/or Bethlehem on Transbridge Lines (about as frequent as much of our regional rail system to mostly close suburbs) to New York, as opposed to 5 round trips from Philly to the Lehigh Valley on Bieber Bus.

To that point, when considering moving back to New York recently, being able to see family in the Lehigh Valley (who used to live in New York themselves, and like many, relocated to the Lehigh Valley) much more easily if we lived in New York was a consideration.

Not that bus trips mean everything- part of that is just that people take more buses in New York. But the connection between Allentown and New York definitely isn't fictitious. There are literally dozens of busloads of people making these bus trips everyday - many for regular (not necessarily daily) work and business.

[rainrock]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

I've got one thing - Allentown has way better commuter bus service to New York City than to Philadelphia. There are about 30 round bus trips per day from Allentown and/or Bethlehem on Transbridge Lines (about as frequent as much of our regional rail system to mostly close suburbs) to New York, as opposed to 5 round trips from Philly to the Lehigh Valley on Bieber Bus.

To that point, when considering moving back to New York recently, being able to see family in the Lehigh Valley (who used to live in New York themselves, and like many, relocated to the Lehigh Valley) much more easily if we lived in New York was a consideration.

Not that bus trips mean everything- part of that is just that people take more buses in New York. But the connection between Allentown and New York definitely isn't fictitious. There are literally dozens of busloads of people making these bus trips everyday - many for regular (not necessarily daily) work and business.

Commuter patterns of Lehigh County make a mockery of Allentown being a part of NYC cmsa.

Based on 2000 census info.

Lehigh County residents commuting to work:

The largest county in NJ is Warren County NJ- 682 workers

The largest county in NY is NY County- 302 workers


Pennsylvania

Northampton- 18,000
Montgomery- 5,000
Bucks- 4,000
Berks- 3,300
Philadelphia- 600

Strong influence from Mont/Bucks to the Lehigh Valley.

[kidphilly]

I would imagine a lot has changed since 2000

[kidphilly]

according to these data

Metropolitan and Micropolitan - Other Resources - People and Households - U.S. Census Bureau

There are 299K people who work (are employed) and live in the combined Lehigh and Northampton Counties

29K (~10%) live in these two and commute to the NYC MSA
21K (7%) Live in these two and commute to the Philly MSA

161K live in Lehigh and work in these
6K (4%)commute to the NY MSA
16K (10%) commute to the Philly MSA

138K live in Northampton and work in these
23K (17% - this is CSA connection county to the NY MSA) commute to the NY MSA
5K (4%) commute to the Philly MSA

So Northhampton is the connector

Lehigh does not make a CSA connection to Philly at only 10% 15% are required county to county for CSA and 25% for MSA

While Lehigh is more connected to Philly it still misses the CSA connection and Northampton is commuter area today more so to NY

Though Warren, Somerset, and Morris drive this (12K) NYC itself has about 1,500 (Philly proper at 300 and Montgomery matching with 1500 and Bucks surpassing at 2,300 (less than any of Morris, Somerset or Warren in NJ)

[soug]

If you look on Google Maps satellite view, you can see a very thin stretch of undeveloped land that cuts Mercer County in half. The areas to the southwest of this are more Philly-centric (Trenton, Hamilton Twp), while the towns northeast of it are NY-NNJ centric (Princeton, West Windsor). This is my observation at least based on people I know in that area.

[soug]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

according to these data

Metropolitan and Micropolitan - Other Resources - People and Households - U.S. Census Bureau

There are 299K people who work (are employed) and live in the combined Lehigh and Northampton Counties

29K (~10%) live in these two and commute to the NYC MSA
21K (7%) Live in these two and commute to the Philly MSA

161K live in Lehigh and work in these
6K (4%)commute to the NY MSA
16K (10%) commute to the Philly MSA

138K live in Northampton and work in these
23K (17% - this is CSA connection county to the NY MSA) commute to the NY MSA
5K (4%) commute to the Philly MSA

So Northhampton is the connector

Lehigh does not make a CSA connection to Philly at only 10% 15% are required county to county for CSA and 25% for MSA

While Lehigh is more connected to Philly it still misses the CSA connection and Northampton is commuter area today more so to NY

Though Warren, Somerset, and Morris drive this (12K) NYC itself has about 1,500 (Philly proper at 300 and Montgomery matching with 1500 and Bucks surpassing at 2,300 (less than any of Morris, Somerset or Warren in NJ)

Awesome, thanks. Can you find this data for Mercer to SJ vs. NNJ? I tried looking through the site you listed and got confused very fast.

[misterfart]

Originally Posted by kidphilly

according to these data

Metropolitan and Micropolitan - Other Resources - People and Households - U.S. Census Bureau

There are 299K people who work (are employed) and live in the combined Lehigh and Northampton Counties

29K (~10%) live in these two and commute to the NYC MSA
21K (7%) Live in these two and commute to the Philly MSA

161K live in Lehigh and work in these
6K (4%)commute to the NY MSA
16K (10%) commute to the Philly MSA

138K live in Northampton and work in these
23K (17% - this is CSA connection county to the NY MSA) commute to the NY MSA
5K (4%) commute to the Philly MSA

So Northhampton is the connector

Lehigh does not make a CSA connection to Philly at only 10% 15% are required county to county for CSA and 25% for MSA

While Lehigh is more connected to Philly it still misses the CSA connection and Northampton is commuter area today more so to NY

Though Warren, Somerset, and Morris drive this (12K) NYC itself has about 1,500 (Philly proper at 300 and Montgomery matching with 1500 and Bucks surpassing at 2,300 (less than any of Morris, Somerset or Warren in NJ)

Thats actually impressive on Philadelphia's part to be honest, because NYC is the second largest economy in the world and 4x the size of Philadelphia's. A difference of 8,000 workers. Who knows, as Philly improves, that number will only get larger.

[rainrock]

Warren,Hunterdon, counties are rural counties with low population figures which are geographically disconnected from NYC.Ridiculous that these 2 counties out in the "sticks" are the bridge connecting Lehigh to Manhattan. The whole expanded metro propaganda is pure nonsense.

Allentown being part of NYC's metro is a joke.