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I'm not overly familiar with that part of the city.
I read a lot of born and bred northeasterners say the area is declining and is the next North Philly- particularly below Cottman. I wonder if it's actually real decline or is it just an overblown fear of an increasing minority population?
It's such a massive part of the city and it deserves more attention.
I agree with the post above. The area is getting worse and worse as time goes on. I don't like to stereotypical and say the next north philly, but i dont know what else could describe it. I believe the area is growing, but more so because with the building up of certain areas in North Philly there is just nowhere else to go. Further into the NE is too expensive and other areas of the city are more foreign when you grew up travelling out to rising sun ave to go grocery shopping or to the mall at bustleton and cottman.
I have worked at a couple of non profits in the city and i have always noticed the NE is funded much less than other "needier" parts of the city. I dont think anyone expected the population in the lower NE to explode as it has, especially with lower income families. The Oxford Circle area has the largest amount of families with children who qualify for head start/pre k counts....yet there are the least amount of slots in that area. it just wasnt expected.
i hope that if growth wants to be encouraged in the lower NE then they (the city? government?) put some much needed attention into the area. The rec centers have been neglected, the police do not feel that these neighborhoods are a priority and rental properties with neglectful landlords all need to be addressed.
i live very close to this area, we actually have many similar problems. it feels as though the city doesnt care about these neighborhoods. we aren't far enough ne to pay a large amount of taxes and we aren't close enough to downtown to put any real effort into revitalizing the neighborhoods. i have no fear of a minority population, i want diversity in my neighborhoods and my kids schools....but my neighborhood is getting so bad it's just not worth it to me anymore.
I'm not overly familiar with that part of the city.
I read a lot of born and bred northeasterners say the area is declining and is the next North Philly- particularly below Cottman. I wonder if it's actually real decline or is it just an overblown fear of an increasing minority population?
It's such a massive part of the city and it deserves more attention.
South of Cottman is in decline. There are pockets of the NE that are still pretty good, but nothing happening for the betterment that I know of.
I was born in Flushing, Queens. Once upon a time it was very middle class Jewish ... dozens of synagogues there. Remember The Nanny ? Now it is overwhelmingly Asian, and is the bigger Chinatown than the famous one in lower Manhattan.
The parallel is stronger than you think.
In 2012, I did a "Buildings Then and Now" feature on a church two blocks east of where I was then living, which was just north of Oxford Circle itself. The building looks for all the world like a classic Georgian Revival Protestant church, which it is now - except it has no spire.
Oxford Circle's trajectory closely mirrors Flushing's. Which is why I dissent from the Northeast residents who posted in response to this post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mancat100
I'm not overly familiar with that part of the city.
I read a lot of born and bred northeasterners say the area is declining and is the next North Philly- particularly below Cottman. I wonder if it's actually real decline or is it just an overblown fear of an increasing minority population?
It's such a massive part of the city and it deserves more attention.
that Oxford Circle is the next North Philly.
Granted, I only spent 18 months in Oxford Circle, but I've seen plenty of North Philly as well, and the dynamic is much different. The only thing that's gone downhill in Oxford Circle is the median household income, which now hovers somewhere in the upper $20k range. That's the same as the beat-up East Germantown census tract I live in now - but I don't think anyone would confuse Castor Avenue for Chelten Avenue.
There's not a single sit-down restaurant east of Germantown Avenue on Chelten - they're all takeouts with Plexiglass covering their order counters. Castor Avenue boasts several good sit-down places, including a Brazilian churrascuria that got two bells from Craig LaBan, a Mongolian restaurant, a Korean BBQ eatery and several other Brazilian and Jamaican sit-down eateries - all below Cottman.
The homes remain better kept up in Oxford Circle too, at least relative to those south of Chelten Avenue. (North of Chelten, the neighborhoods look more alike in terms of maintenance.)
And once again, the population is rising - faster than in any other part of the city. Much of the worst-off sections of North Philly, like Strawberry Mansion and Sharswood, continue to lose residents.
The difference is that the folks populating the Lower Northeast now are poor immigrants. For many of these people, a place like this is a rung on the ladder headed upward. Some may - I hope will - stay as their fortunes improve and invest in the neighborhood. Others will head for greener pastures - maybe further up in the Northeast, maybe in some suburb. But the neighborhood isn't emptying out the way North Philly did, and that makes a world of difference. Nor is it experiencing the sort of disinvestment that makes my corner of Germantown look half-bombed-out.
In other words, it may not be the Northeast you all knew and loved, but it's not headed down the tubes either.
I agree with the post above. The area is getting worse and worse as time goes on. I don't like to stereotypical and say the next north philly, but i dont know what else could describe it. I believe the area is growing, but more so because with the building up of certain areas in North Philly there is just nowhere else to go. Further into the NE is too expensive and other areas of the city are more foreign when you grew up travelling out to rising sun ave to go grocery shopping or to the mall at bustleton and cottman.
I have worked at a couple of non profits in the city and i have always noticed the NE is funded much less than other "needier" parts of the city. I dont think anyone expected the population in the lower NE to explode as it has, especially with lower income families. The Oxford Circle area has the largest amount of families with children who qualify for head start/pre k counts....yet there are the least amount of slots in that area. it just wasnt expected.
i hope that if growth wants to be encouraged in the lower NE then they (the city? government?) put some much needed attention into the area. The rec centers have been neglected, the police do not feel that these neighborhoods are a priority and rental properties with neglectful landlords all need to be addressed.
i live very close to this area, we actually have many similar problems. it feels as though the city doesnt care about these neighborhoods. we aren't far enough ne to pay a large amount of taxes and we aren't close enough to downtown to put any real effort into revitalizing the neighborhoods. i have no fear of a minority population, i want diversity in my neighborhoods and my kids schools....but my neighborhood is getting so bad it's just not worth it to me anymore.
Having seen real bombed-out, depopulated, disinvested Philly neighborhoods, I still quibble with the dark portrait you paint here - but I must note that, when I lived on Alma Street off Comly, my (female, African-American) next-door neighbor complained to me about how the new arrivals were dragging the neighborhood down. But at the same time, there were still spring block cleanups on the 5900 block of Alma Street in which many neighbors pitched in. I'm now beginning my third spring on East Chelten Avenue and have yet to see anything like that over here.
As for need for social services vs. availability of same, that is an interesting point. Lower Frankford aside, the Northeast is still not associated with poverty in City Hall's eyes, I suspect, and that may require some vision adjustment at Broad and Market as well.
And once again, the population is rising - faster than in any other part of the city. Much of the worst-off sections of North Philly, like Strawberry Mansion and Sharswood, continue to lose residents.
But where do you think the residents of these communities are going? I am all for bettering yourself and moving up, but when you leave somewhere for "greener pastures" then you need to adapt to your new surroundings as well. that doesnt seem to be happening. where is the respect for neighbors and even if only renting, shouldn't there be some level of responsibility and consideration for the property? I have been in my house for 12 years and it has changed considerably.
i can only speak for what i see on a daily basis. my new neighbors are throwing trash on our shared back porch. literally, there is an open trash bag outside and they open the door and toss the trash out. don't care if it lands in the bag or not. i cant imagine what it will be like in the summer. but we are moving next month, so i guess we may be part of the problem, i just cant.
my ex is from north philly (22nd and somerset to be exact) and even HE hates coming here now. We lived here together for 9 years and when we separated he moved to bucks county. i have a friend whose husband works in my neighborhood, when there is an issue here i call him first because in his words this neighborhood is not a priority to the district. they are told to spend a majority of their time in burholme to keep it from turning into my neighborhood. why is that?
sigh. i dont have any intelligent answers right now....im too deeply invested! lol
conspiracy theory... get the poor people out of the areas that are being gentrified, herd them to the NE but keep them from going too far north so we can contain them and keep them from messing up the "good" parts (ie...high property tax areas).
Okay... Fox Chase, Bustleton, Somerton, Morrell Park are just falling to pieces.
I never insinuated such a thing. I acknowledged that there were good pockets in the NE. However those area's in my opinion are as good as it gets. I will leave it at that. I was once told by a politician who serves the Far Ne, that City Hall thinks the area is fine and not in need of anything.
But where do you think the residents of these communities are going? I am all for bettering yourself and moving up, but when you leave somewhere for "greener pastures" then you need to adapt to your new surroundings as well. that doesnt seem to be happening. where is the respect for neighbors and even if only renting, shouldn't there be some level of responsibility and consideration for the property? I have been in my house for 12 years and it has changed considerably.
i can only speak for what i see on a daily basis. my new neighbors are throwing trash on our shared back porch. literally, there is an open trash bag outside and they open the door and toss the trash out. don't care if it lands in the bag or not. i cant imagine what it will be like in the summer. but we are moving next month, so i guess we may be part of the problem, i just cant.
Your neighbors sound like the people my next-door neighbor on Alma Street was complaining about.
I suspect they're not immigrants from abroad, though. Just a hunch.
Quote:
my ex is from north philly (22nd and somerset to be exact) and even HE hates coming here now. We lived here together for 9 years and when we separated he moved to bucks county. i have a friend whose husband works in my neighborhood, when there is an issue here i call him first because in his words this neighborhood is not a priority to the district. they are told to spend a majority of their time in burholme to keep it from turning into my neighborhood. why is that?
sigh. i dont have any intelligent answers right now....im too deeply invested! lol
conspiracy theory... get the poor people out of the areas that are being gentrified, herd them to the NE but keep them from going too far north so we can contain them and keep them from messing up the "good" parts (ie...high property tax areas).
22nd and Somerset? and he thought Oxford Circle was worse?
I guess one of the reasons I don't is because the commercial district in that area is in far better health, as I noted above, and on top of that, there's far fewer abandoned properties and virtually no vacant lots where homes once stood in the Northeast. But bad neighbors where none existed before can change perceptions, and it's clear you're far from alone.
i am in lawncrest, right across the navy depot from oxford circle. every time he comes by he sees someone from the "old neighborhood". also my friends husband is a police officer in this district.
it will be interesting to see how long the vacant homes become vacant lots, if that will even happen. my old neighbors sold their house for 46k, but they were older and their house was likely paid off. they could take that just to be done with the neighborhood. there are about 3 houses on my block that are vacant. so while the perception might be a little better now, how long can they be neglected before they fall down?
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