Where Philadelphia's Other Future Is Being Written: The Northeast (York: mortgage, townhouse)

[2e1m5a]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Give me a heads-up when you do. Let's talk real estate.

Sounds good!

[Snwmn5]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

^FSaw Works^RSawtown Tavern

Historical reference is accurate, though.

Scoats has a partner in this enterprise, who I also know: Troy Everwine, who like me used to work in the Office of University Relations at Penn. They're neighbors in Tacony, and Troy's wanted to open a pub too for a while.

Can't wait for the grand opening.

I saw something about that opening last time I was at Grey Lodge. Thats awesome for the neighborhood.

Does anyone know what type of food they're going to have? Is it general bar food like Grey Lodge or more themed like Hop Angel?

[troyev]

We're installing a brick oven at SawTown, so we'll focus on wood-fired craft pizza along with custom crafted house beers made by various local breweries. We'll be open for Beer Week (and part of the festivities), tapping our first two house beers; a Vienna Lager "SawTown Standard Lager" made by Sly Fox, and a grapefruit IPA "Pink Bunny" made by Naked Brewing Company. There will be a total of six house beers and four (hopefully local) wines on tap by the time we're done with renovations later in the summer. But we'll be open every day while work is completed. Scoats and I both LIVE right here in Tacony, so we're working to create a neighborhood bar we want to hang out in often. Here's hoping you will, too. We're on Facebook if you want to know more.

Cheers!
Troy

[Snwmn5]

Originally Posted by troyev

We're installing a brick oven at SawTown, so we'll focus on wood-fired craft pizza along with custom crafted house beers made by various local breweries. We'll be open for Beer Week (and part of the festivities), tapping our first two house beers; a Vienna Lager "SawTown Standard Lager" made by Sly Fox, and a grapefruit IPA "Pink Bunny" made by Naked Brewing Company. There will be a total of six house beers and four (hopefully local) wines on tap by the time we're done with renovations later in the summer. But we'll be open every day while work is completed. Scoats and I both LIVE right here in Tacony, so we're working to create a neighborhood bar we want to hang out in often. Here's hoping you will, too. We're on Facebook if you want to know more.

Cheers!
Troy

Nice - thanks for the info Troy!

[freddok]

Thanks for the info, Troy.

I'll be stopping by your establishment at some point after you open up.

When do you plan to open?

We'll quite probably be neighbors, soon. My wife and I are in the process of buying our first home in Tacony/Wissinoming on Creston Street. If everything works out with the mortgage, we're set to close on May 29th and to move in around mid-June.

Regards,

--Freddo

[Aimewitue]

Northeast reminds me of Queens,NY

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by Aimewitue

Northeast reminds me of Queens,NY

While I think the young hip urbanites are much too harsh on the Northeast - and in my opinion the NE even offers some of the most authentic neighborhoods in Philadelphia (adding to the irony of it being the focus of such disdain by the young and hip) - being a native of Queens, NY, and hearing the constant comparisons of the Northeast and Queens, it was quite disappointing. I mean the population density of Queens is still twice that of Philadelphia as a whole - and there's quite a bit of open space in Queens and little to no hyper-density. Meaning the urbanism of Queens and the NE can't really be compared.

Since getting to know the NE for what it actually is - a part of Philadelphia that's a slightly longer bus ride away than some other places, and not as drastically different from the rest of the city as many make it seem, I find myself enjoying myself there more when I visit.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat

While I think the young hip urbanites are much too harsh on the Northeast - and in my opinion the NE even offers some of the most authentic neighborhoods in Philadelphia (adding to the irony of it being the focus of such disdain by the young and hip) - being a native of Queens, NY, and hearing the constant comparisons of the Northeast and Queens, it was quite disappointing. I mean the population density of Queens is still twice that of Philadelphia as a whole - and there's quite a bit of open space in Queens and little to no hyper-density. Meaning the urbanism of Queens and the NE can't really be compared.

Don't forget relative scale. Or the fact that analogies need not be exact in order for them to have explanatory power.

The Northeast is less dense than Queens. And Center City is less dense than Manhattan, and Philadelphia as a whole far less dense than NYC as a whole. It may well be that if you compared the density differences (Queens:Manhattan, NE:CC) they might well be identical.

Then there's the metaphorical comparison. Queens began to develop in the early 20th century along the subway lines that served parts of it; the lower Northeast ditto. But their greatest expansion followed the roads that opened up territory the subways didn't serve, and the resulting development was even less dense than what preceded it, though it shared key elements of form with what had come before. And the people who moved there first were by and large the white ethnics from the lower middle class, who wanted more room or to escape change they feared; were "All in the Family set in Philadelphia, Archie Bunker would probably have lived in Mayfair.

And both areas have become more diverse in every respect, with immigration fueling a good chunk of that new diversity.

Any of this seem plausible to you?

[Clark Park]

Originally Posted by Aimewitue

Northeast reminds me of Queens,NY

Having been born in Queens (Flushing, to be exact ... remember The Nanny?) myself, I must agree that many parts of the Great Northeast does indeed remind me of Queens. Especially those tidy and kept up residential neighborhoods of post-war middle class townhouses ("twins") built mostly in the '50's and '60's.

However, Queens does have some upscale affluent neighborhoods such as Jamaica Estates, Hollis Hills, and even Garden Hills; upper-middle neighborhoods like Fresh Meadows and Douglaston, too. I do not think there is any thing comparable in the Great Northeast.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Don't forget relative scale. Or the fact that analogies need not be exact in order for them to have explanatory power.

The Northeast is less dense than Queens. And Center City is less dense than Manhattan, and Philadelphia as a whole far less dense than NYC as a whole. It may well be that if you compared the density differences (Queens:Manhattan, NE:CC) they might well be identical.

Any of this seem plausible to you?

A lot of what you say is plausible, yes, and well framed by you as always. The neighborhood that I'm from in Queens, Ridgdewood (right next to Bushwick) was developed in its current state in the early 20th century, pre-car, which makes a world of difference - but much of Queens was developed before the car - and even what is post-car still cedes a great deal to the legitimacy of public transit and walking. We had access to two subway lines within walking distance from our house - the M train and the L train. Not to mention Queens is home to such major public transit junctions as Jamaica and Flushing (both of which are quite far out into Queens, unlike Frankford Terminal, barely spitting distance into NE Philly).

Which is to say - although Queens would certainly be the equivalent of NE Philly to New York, many cities have these "relatively" newer, "relatively" suburban pockets in them, and I don't know that Queens and NE Philly are any more similar than NE Philly and any other example - except that people like to make the Philadelphia and New York example (and they are quite close to each other, and many people familiar with Philadelphia anyway are familiar with New York). Me also being familiar with the Twin Cities could pick some pretty apt examples from there as well - and some stark differences, there would still be much relative truth to the comparisons.

For what it's worth, here are some population densities, which do support your relativity argument:

The densest census tract I see in Philadelphia is tract 804, near Rittenhouse, as over 60,000 people per square mile. There could be something I missed, but nothing is going to be drastically more dense than that.

Many highly populated census tracts in "Greater" Center City are around 30,000 people per square mile - including tracts in Washington Square, Queen Village, Bella Vista, and so on - although there are a few random tracts that go up to 40 or 50k. Some tracts in Old City and north to Girard are pretty low, around 10k. To be attributed to industrial zones, I imagine, as well some poorly thought out low density housing.

Many census tracts hugging Frankford Avenue and the Boulevard are 25-30k - although a few are closer to 15k. The Castor Avenue corridor reaches as high as 36k per square mile - like I said, not drastically different than much of South Philadelphia. Many of the shortcomings of the NE (i.e, "suburban" or not walkable) are based on perception perhaps more than reality - and in the cases they are based on reality, they could be fixed relatively simply (building commercial storefronts to the sidewalk - really simple solution that could be very gradually solved over a generation).

The census tracts around Fresh Pond Road and Myrtle in Queens range from 40-60k (i.e., Center City density). Although it's not hard to find much less dense neighborhoods in Queens, as low as 10-20k. The population density of Manhattan tracts are all over the place, but for the sake of argument, 100k+.

But the relative being true, that still doesn't change the fact that a good part of Queens has population densities similar to Center City Philadelphia, in addition to world class transit assets (the NYC subway and the LIRR), as well as amazing business districts held together by local entrepreneurs on an unbelievably walkable scale, often completely oblivious to the automobile.

It does make the direct comparison of Queens and NE Philly difficult for me to accept anyway - even if they are both relatively newer, relatively less dense than the central business districts of their respective cities.

In conclusion though, I have to say I really like your piece, and it's great that you're a (relatively ) well known voice giving publicity to positive developments to parts of Philadelphia that fly under the radar (which is, sadly, most of the city).

Population density data was grabbed from 2010 NY Times Mapping the census.