Ungentrifyable Neighborhoods (Philadelphia, Erie, Wilson: houses, school, university)

[MikeNigh]

Do you think, that because of weak public transportation access, there are city neighborhoods that are unlikely to gentrify past a modest / middle class?

IE: Parts of south philly away from the subway line would be a long bus ride to center city to work and if you had a car it would be expensive to park downtown. If they worked in the suburbs they might rather just live in the suburbs or get a job downtown and then move closer to that.

Imo it seems that back when some of these neighborhoods were developed, because of lower car ownership, trolleys etc were much more effective, but now they need a subway line to be effective again.

[thedirtypirate]

Neighborhoods are ungentrifyable because there aren't enough jobs. They didn't build all these houses so close together so people could ride the trolley to Center City. They built them so close because people walked around the corner to the factory in their neighborhood. Philadelphia needs neighborhoods that are safe, clean, and affordable for modest/middle class people. Not force them out.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

Originally Posted by thedirtypirate

Neighborhoods are ungentrifyable because there aren't enough jobs. They didn't build all these houses so close together so people could ride the trolley to Center City. They built them so close because people walked around the corner to the factory in their neighborhood. Philadelphia needs neighborhoods that are safe, clean, and affordable for modest/middle class people. Not force them out.

Exactly. Practically the whole trip from Mt Airy to Center City, you are going through areas that used to be full of employment, and pockets of pretty imporessive density around Central Germantown, Broad and Lehigh, Hunting Park Avenue.

South Philly at its furthest is still within imaginable walking distance to Center City for people who really like to walk - not far away, and even then you need to go back and look at the old pictures of Delaware Avenue, Oregon Avenue, the Navy Yard, etc..

[thwanko]

There are neighborhoods that I can't see gentrifying due to
1. Distance from Center City
2. A housing stock that is not attractive to most gentrifiers
Examples would be West Oak Lane, Overbrook Park and huge swaths of the Northeast. This isn't really a bad thing though.

I don't think most of South Philly falls in this category, except maybe the far parts south of Oregon Ave.

As a practical matter, many neighborhoods in the city will probably never gentrify because there isn't enough demand for urban living among the high income people of the region to fill the entire city, even if there isn't anything inherent about them that would make them "ungentrifyable."

[otters21]

The further a neighborhood away from Center City the less of a chance it has for gentrification except maybe parts of Northwest Philly ala lower/mid Roxborough-Wissahickon ,( Upper Roxborough/Andorra, Dearnley Park are already suburbanlike middle family oriented neighborhoods ) East Falls, Manayunk and the western parts of Germantown and Mount Airy ( Chestnut Hill does not need gentrification because it has always been an upscale area). Nicetown-Tioga did have the bare bones for gentrification with all the housing stock almost identical to University City and the very walkable Broad and Erie shopping district. Sadly that area will remain ungentrified because A. it is further out from Center City and B. there was so much blight and tear downs that not many blocks have retained all their housing stock ( too much "missing teeth"). Elsewhere where I don't see gentrification are the still intact river wards such as Port Richmond and Bridesburg ( they will most likely retain their current stable middle class "old school" population) , much of the Northeast because of it's bland housing stock ( there may be some isolated gentrification in the Northwood section of Frankford and the Disston Estates area of Tacony) much of West and Southwest Philly past 52nd St. ( except maybe for isolated parts of Overbrook), the whole swath of North Philly west of Front Street and north of Lehigh up to the City Line ( except for isolated pockets of East Oak Lane/ Oak Lane) , Kensington -Harrowgate ( north of Allegheny between Front and Aramingo, Juniata Park, Hunting Park, Feltonville, Olney , West Oak Lane/ Ogontz/ Stenton/ Cederbrook/ Ivy Hill ( again bland housing stock ) and the eastern parts of Germantown. OTOH I see much of South Philly gentrified down to Oregon Ave except for Grays Ferry and Southbrook Park ( they are cut off by the 25th St. railroad viaduct , too close to the Wilson Park housing project and plus the latter has bland housing stock. As far as south of Oregon is concerned that area does not need gentrification cause the neighborhoods there already have stable middle class to upscale population

[otters21]

Also I need to add that much of East Mount Airy won't see gentrification because of bland housing stock and distance from Center City.

[2e1m5a]

Originally Posted by otters21

Also I need to add that much of East Mount Airy won't see gentrification because of bland housing stock and distance from Center City.

Bland housing stock in East Mount Airy? There is some but mainly that is Cedarbrook and West Oak Lane-but believe it or not there is a market for those 1950's airlight rowhomes-they often have finished basements and garages and things like central air, back decks.

I'm not sure all these places need to be "gentrified" though. Cedarbrook is very stable/middle class.

[otters21]

Truth to be told ,even the 1950s Airlite rowhomes common in the West Lane/Cedarbrook/Ivy Hill area and Northeast Philly have much more character than much of the c**ptastic McMansions and cookie cutters built after 1990 in far flung suburbs and exurbs. If I had to choose and the only options were the Airlite and the McMansion I would chose the Airlite. BTW you stand correct there are many neighborhoods that are stable and don't need gentrification and Cedarbrook/ Ivy Hill is one of them. West Oak Lane OTOH can be a little sketchy especially along Ogontz Ave.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by otters21

Truth to be told ,even the 1950s Airlite rowhomes common in the West Lane/Cedarbrook/Ivy Hill area and Northeast Philly have much more character than much of the c**ptastic McMansions and cookie cutters built after 1990 in far flung suburbs and exurbs. If I had to choose and the only options were the Airlite and the McMansion I would chose the Airlite. BTW you stand correct there are many neighborhoods that are stable and don't need gentrification and Cedarbrook/ Ivy Hill is one of them. West Oak Lane OTOH can be a little sketchy especially along Ogontz Ave.

That is again over generalized. I get so sick of people bashing the suburbs, the people there and the housing stock. If you leave a mcmansion vacant for 30 years or you leave a rowhome vacant for 30 years they will both be crumbling with trees growing out of the windows.

And what is more cookie cutter, 100 rowhomes that look exactly the same or 100 singles in the burbs that have 3 different designs. Its a two way street. However, a bunch of 5000sqft singles always attracts more attention than a bunch of rowhomes.

And character comes down to preference. I find many of the rowhome blocks in Philly to be charming but I also find some the large homes in suburban communities attractive too. Just like how I find some of each type ugly as well.

And I would choose a mcmansion over a rowhouse, unless it is on the scale of Delancey St homes.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by 2e1m5a

Bland housing stock in East Mount Airy? There is some but mainly that is Cedarbrook and West Oak Lane-but believe it or not there is a market for those 1950's airlight rowhomes-they often have finished basements and garages and things like central air, back decks.

I'm not sure all these places need to be "gentrified" though. Cedarbrook is very stable/middle class.

Agreed. Lots of city places do not need gentrification, and, it's really offensive, IMO, to imply that these neighborhoods are not worthy some how when they are fine as is.