Why is Philly's freeway system inferior compared to Boston, NYC and Washington (Philadelphia: to live in, moving)

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by chicagoliz

I do agree this is a widespread problem. What really should happen is that the federal government should provide money to fund/upgrade/repair public transit systems in all cities. Especially when traffic just gets worse and worse and worse every year. Especially in the case of already-existing transit, where you already have the railways, and stations set up, we very badly need to spend money to make mass transit a good, viable option for people.

Congress(or parts of it) wants to shutdown the government for the second time in 2 years over Planned Parenthood and we're facing unnecessary debt ceiling drama AGAIN and you seriously believe the Feds will ever tackle this issue? It's not a priority for the people in control of Congress.

The Kentuckian majority leader of the Senate or the Ohioan Speaker of the House doesn't care about our commuting problems. It doesn't affect them. Even the commuting nightmare in DC means absolutely nothing to them.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by usernameunavailable

Doing a research project, and wanted opinions from locals. Why does the design of the freeways in Philly seem so bad compared to other NEC cities, and why does the traffic seem so bad relative to the population?

Keep in mind the Philadelphia area has over 6 million people, aside from NYC all the areas are relative in population.

I think the NIMBY groups are most responsible for the lack of large highways in the area. This is one case where I am thankful that people stepped in the block the over development of highways. If those people did not exist, much of Center City would be ruined, and many of the pretty suburbs we have would look more like Houston or Atlanta which would be tragic.

[chicagoliz]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Congress(or parts of it) wants to shutdown the government for the second time in 2 years over Planned Parenthood and we're facing unnecessary debt ceiling drama AGAIN and you seriously believe the Feds will ever tackle this issue? It's not a priority for the people in control of Congress.

The Kentuckian majority leader of the Senate or the Ohioan Speaker of the House doesn't care about our commuting problems. It doesn't affect them. Even the commuting nightmare in DC means absolutely nothing to them.

I said it *needs* to be done. That doesn't mean I think it will be done.

Before this ever happens, Congress will allow all the ice caps to melt and most of our public transit systems will be underwater anyway.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Keep in mind the Philadelphia area has over 6 million people, aside from NYC all the areas are relative in population.

I think the NIMBY groups are most responsible for the lack of large highways in the area. This is one case where I am thankful that people stepped in the block the over development of highways. If those people did not exist, much of Center City would be ruined, and many of the pretty suburbs we have would look more like Houston or Atlanta which would be tragic.

They absolutely are! When I was a child , during the 50s, the contention over where to put the blue route, for example , was fierce enough that I recall my dad being furious about it. It was supposed be further east than it ended up being. One of the original routes would have brought it either next to our new house or would have required us moving altogether.

And,yes, absolutely agree with you: parts of W. Phila(University City) would have been destroyed. Lower Fitler Sq( probably also including the now gentrifying parts of Grays Ferry) would have been destroyed. Center City would not be the vibrant place that it is.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by kyb01

They absolutely are! When I was a child , during the 50s, the contention over where to put the blue route, for example , was fierce enough that I recall my dad being furious about it. It was supposed be further east than it ended up being. One of the original routes would have brought it either next to our new house or would have required us moving altogether.

And,yes, absolutely agree with you: parts of W. Phila(University City) would have been destroyed. Lower Fitler Sq( probably also including the now gentrifying parts of Grays Ferry) would have been destroyed. Center City would not be the vibrant place that it is.

Absolutely right.

And if anything, as Philly continues to revitalize and re-populate, the lack of highway capacity (and the enormous cost-prohibitive and community-damaging expense in building more highways) in Philly will result in a greater push by the residential/business community for public transit expansion (in many cases, restoration) and enhancements--which are MUCH more cost-effective for a dense urban area.

Given all of the old railways and rights-of-way and potential for transit-oriented development, the region is very well primed for relatively easy public transit expansion. Combined with a greater portion of the Philly area's jobs being placed back in the urban core, there is enormous potential requiring relatively little investment for the region to become even more efficient in terms of commuting/traffic congestion (even though the study I cited earlier demonstrates it's honestly not that bad to begin with relative to the Philly metro's large size).

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by Duderino

Absolutely right.

And if anything, as Philly continues to revitalize and re-populate, the lack of highway capacity (and the enormous cost-prohibitive and community-damaging expense in building more highways) in Philly will result in a greater push by the residential/business community for public transit expansion (in many cases, restoration) and enhancements--which are MUCH more cost-effective for a dense urban area.

Given all of the old railways and rights-of-way and potential for transit-oriented development, the region is very well primed for relatively easy public transit expansion. Combined with a greater portion of the Philly area's jobs being placed back in the urban core, there is enormous potential requiring relatively little investment for the region to become even more efficient in terms of commuting/traffic congestion (even though the study I cited earlier demonstrates it's honestly not that bad to begin with relative to the Philly metro's large size).

That really isn't happening though and probably never will.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by cpomp

That really isn't happening though and probably never will.

I'd have to disagree. In the recent past, you'd be absolutely right. But recent signs have been promising: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/24/up...e-suburbs.html

This is a whole other conversation about what could make Philly more competitive with suburban job growth, but there are several factors that could/will help enormously:

1) A tax structure that is more competitive (which is currently gaining strong traction with a broad-based coalition: Report: Philly could gain jobs with tax restructuring - philly-archives),

2) Recent growth, particularly in Center City, of highly-educated and young residents that greatly increases the talent pool of the city, and

3) General trends that favor concentration of companies/human capital in urban settings. If you think about it, the great era of post-war suburbanization was an aberration in history. Americans in particular are now beginning (once again) to appreciate the enormous value of building up thriving urban centers.

Job growth has definitely been a challenge for the city, but just as it has attracted new residents and new amenities, more and more businesses/employers will want to be part of that equation, especially those who appreciate urban environments and proximity to research institutions, supreme walkability, cultural amenities, and public transportation. In due time, I really do not think it's unreasonable to expect that Philadelphia will re-emerge as a very strong business hub.

Sorry to digress, but there are a lot of factors at play here.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by Duderino

I'd have to disagree. In the recent past, you'd be absolutely right. But recent signs have been promising: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/24/up...e-suburbs.html

This is a whole other conversation about what could make Philly more competitive with suburban job growth, but there are several factors that could/will help enormously:

1) A tax structure that is more competitive (which is currently gaining strong traction with a broad-based coalition: Report: Philly could gain jobs with tax restructuring - philly-archives),

2) Recent growth, particularly in Center City, of highly-educated and young residents that greatly increases the talent pool of the city, and

3) General trends that favor concentration of companies/human capital in urban settings. If you think about it, the great era of post-war suburbanization was an aberration in history. Americans in particular are now beginning to appreciate the enormous value of building up thriving urban centers.

Job growth has definitely been a challenge for the city, but just as it has attracted new residents and new amenities, employers will definitely want to be part of that equation, especially those who appreciate urban environments and proximity to research institutions, supreme walkability, cultural amenities, and public transportation. In due time, I really do not think it's unreasonable to expect that Philadelphia will re-emerge as a very strong business hub.

Sorry to digress, but there are a lot of factors at play here.

digressing again. I'm all for job growth in Philadelphia, but the largest moves into Center City have been from South Jersey and Delaware. The areas most massive corporations like AmerisourceBergen, Ametek, Lincoln National Corporation, Sungard, UGI, Unisys, Universal Health Services, VWR International, etc are very content with their sprawling suburban campuses. There is a hot startup, medical and internet community in Philadelphia, but a massive move of say AmerisourceBergen to Center City I guarantee will never happen.

Anyways, why should we want to take from the suburbs, lets take from an area we don't depend on like Minneapolis for example.

[Duderino]

Originally Posted by cpomp

digressing again. I'm all for job growth in Philadelphia, but the largest moves into Center City have been from South Jersey and Delaware. The areas most massive corporations like AmerisourceBergen, Ametek, Lincoln National Corporation, Sungard, UGI, Unisys, Universal Health Services, VWR International, etc are very content with their sprawling suburban campuses. There is a hot startup, medical and internet community in Philadelphia, but a massive move of say AmerisourceBergen to Center City I guarantee will never happen.

Anyways, why should we want to take from the suburbs, lets take from an area we don't depend on like Minneapolis for example.

I agree with what you are saying here. First, Philly shouldn't look to cannibalize employment in the suburbs--that's a zero-sum game for the region.

Also, you're right that the odds of a massive corporate relocation from the suburbs is extremely slim. However, that's honestly not where Philly should focus its efforts anyway. It can and will continue to focus on cultivating its homegrown startup community and research spinoffs (from its academic and healthcare institutions). While no one company may be earth-shattering in its scope, the sum of these types companies and the jobs that they bring can make a massive impact over time. Frankly, Philly is much better off not to be a "company town" like many other cities.

It's about creating a sustainable "entrepreneurial ecosystem," and what is going on in places like University City and the Navy Yard indicate that Philly is really making progress doing just that. The city has a synergy that no suburb can come close to re-creating, and again, this will give Philly more and more of a competitive advantage over time.

[selhars]

Janszoon's post #3 is absolutely correct, Philly's traffic is NOT bad for its population.

DC and Boston have worse traffic congestion for commuters and are lower in population -- (even comparing "metro areas" Philly traffic isn't bad.)

Why does the traffic SEEM worse?......because people ignorant of how bad it REALLY is in other places, don't know what they're talking about and keep repeating a premise that isn't even true. That's why.

If people think Philly commute is bad try DC, San Francisco or LA? Then talk to me about traffic congestion.
Philly commuters need to stop whining.