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Old 06-30-2016, 01:12 PM
 
544 posts, read 462,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat View Post

I don't begrudge her anything - coming from Minneapolis it didn't take long for us to realize that Minneapolis was indeed a more viable urban environment for us compared to Philly in terms of the type of walkable/transitable neighborhoods, diversity (especially economic diversity of neighborhoods), and job situation (We lived in the Powderhorn - Lake Street Area if you're familiar - although I'd guess Minneapolis people are more familiar with Chicago than the opposite). Actually if I was in the sort of set-up your friend was - not attached to a lease or a family, I might very well have taken an opportunity like this to go back on it.

Philly's not terrible though - we're taking the opportunity to do now what we should have done years ago (pay back student loans and get a little more ahead before our next big move, starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel). Good luck.


I've seen you make numerous unfavorable comparison between Philly and Minneapolis. I have always wondered if you wanted a "walkable/transitable" area why did you move to Germantown/Mt. Airy? I have been to Minneapolis many times and love it. Minneapolis, however, is significantly less walkable and has significantly less transit options than Philadelphia. I agree that Germantown and Mt. Airy are lacking, but that's not really the draw of either neighborhood. The central neighborhoods are generally much more walkable and transit friendly than anything found in the Twin Cities.
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Old 06-30-2016, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
33,068 posts, read 61,890,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burger Fan View Post
Blue Bell is barely what one would consider a Philadelphia suburb. It's nearly an hour out from center city not including traffic. Technically yeah, sure- its a suburb in the greater Philadelphia area, but no one sane is going to live there and travel to CC on a regular basis.
LMAO. Surely you've heard of Regional Rail?

Quote:
It is cheap. Go north to NY or South to DC to compare similar metro areas on the east coast. It's not significantly cheaper than Chicago though, because Chicago is in the Midwest.
Another knee-slapper. Try re-reading the original post.
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Old 06-30-2016, 02:11 PM
 
5,348 posts, read 5,570,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burger Fan View Post
Ah, another edition of "life is harder than I thought it would be!"




[font=Calibri]well yes, because Philadelphia and Chicago are not the same city....snip
This post says it all. It took me three years to save and prepare in order to make my move successful with confidence. And I was a 35 year old with 12 years of experience in my industry when I moved to Philly. If you're going to skip all that, you better be comfortable being uncomfortable.
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Old 06-30-2016, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,743 posts, read 7,845,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KansastoSouthphilly View Post
I've seen you make numerous unfavorable comparison between Philly and Minneapolis. I have always wondered if you wanted a "walkable/transitable" area why did you move to Germantown/Mt. Airy? I have been to Minneapolis many times and love it. Minneapolis, however, is significantly less walkable and has significantly less transit options than Philadelphia. I agree that Germantown and Mt. Airy are lacking, but that's not really the draw of either neighborhood. The central neighborhoods are generally much more walkable and transit friendly than anything found in the Twin Cities.
I'd argue that Mt. Airy/Germantown are even more dense/walkable than 99% of anything in a city like Minneapolis, and the vast majority of Chicago, for that matter. The residential density at the street-level of Philly, which is what lends to its great walkability, is something that just doesn't exist Midwest (and I emphasize "street-level," here--condo/office towers certainly add to overall density, but it doesn't count at the street-level.)

Over time, as Philly is growing its population steadily, it stands to reason that there will be grounds for transit expansion to better serve more neighborhoods outside of "Greater Center City."
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Old 06-30-2016, 08:25 PM
 
59 posts, read 36,617 times
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My recommendation is that your friend needs to get her **** together. Who moves to a new city at 30 without doing any research or any job prospects lined up? I honestly don't even know where to start. Get a job would probably be step one. Figure out your commute situation would be step two. When I lived in Fishtown, I knew people who commuted all over the place, as far as Princeton. They hated the commute, but loved living in the neighborhood. The Philly job market is what it is. Either suck it up and do what you gotta do....or don't.
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Old 07-01-2016, 03:51 AM
 
Location: Midwest
1,283 posts, read 1,880,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
I'd argue that Mt. Airy/Germantown are even more dense/walkable than 99% of anything in a city like Minneapolis, and the vast majority of Chicago, for that matter. The residential density at the street-level of Philly, which is what lends to its great walkability, is something that just doesn't exist Midwest (and I emphasize "street-level," here--condo/office towers certainly add to overall density, but it doesn't count at the street-level.)
No.

The population densiity of Philadelphia as a whole is 11,635 per square mile. Chicago is 11,864. Per wikipedia anyway. Very similar. Philadelphia and Chicago have both experienced large population losses in the course of the last 50 years and small population gains in the recent past.

Minneapolis is a bit less at 7,500 per square mile. Much of the area around where I used to live was around 12k per square mile (a bit more than Mt Airy and most of Germantown, and a bit more than the average for either Chicago or Philadelphia). Per ny times census map, 2010.


But I was mostly just talking to the OP as someone else who has an affinity for the Midwestern City....don't read too much into it or think I'm trying to start a discussion with locals about city versus city.

There is street life in some other cities, and there's also personal preference.
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:04 AM
 
3,063 posts, read 2,637,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ondoner View Post
It looks like we'll have another Chi-town vs Philly thread.

I'm going to do y'all a favor a declare Chicago IS BETTER than Philly, because IT IS, so that other posters can focus on the problem at hand. Which is, how easy is it to find a job in Philly compared to Chicago and is it possible to live in the city while working in the exburbs.

My take, beggars can't be choosers. Your friend's priority should be finding a job. What field is she in? Most employers, outside retail, hire new/growth positions at the beginning of the financial year. That's my experience.

Once she has found a job, hopefully outside the city, she should live close to her place of work. I think living in the city is overrated. Most city residents are broke, anyway, because they are paying through the nose, so they tend to have a lower quality of life compared to guys in the suburbs. I should know this because I lived in London. Better to live in the suburbs, if you ask me, it's cheaper and you'll save money.
She is in business marketing--but only recently, so she only has a few years under her belt(long story). She was initially a teacher right out of undergrad, but did a huge career switch a few years back. Her and I are technically in very similar fields, but the skills she has are a lot different from my own. For instance--I do more writing than anything. She did more things involving numbers, analyzing programs, etc. But she technically would probably be considered more "entry level" out here. She made a decent amount in Chicago, because she was doing marketing in the education sector at the time--which contributed to why she made more than what she would out here, because she had experience as a teacher and in education.

I mean living in the suburbs would be nice for her if they had the things she enjoys. She loves spoken word, concerts, museums, basketball games, clubs, etc. In other words she likes a lot of the things that would require her to live in the city.
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:04 AM
 
59 posts, read 36,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat View Post
No.

The population densiity of Philadelphia as a whole is 11,635 per square mile. Chicago is 11,864. Per wikipedia anyway. Very similar. Philadelphia and Chicago have both experienced large population losses in the course of the last 50 years and small population gains in the recent past.

Minneapolis is a bit less at 7,500 per square mile. Much of the area around where I used to live was around 12k per square mile (a bit more than Mt Airy and most of Germantown, and a bit more than the average for either Chicago or Philadelphia). Per ny times census map, 2010.


But I was mostly just talking to the OP as someone else who has an affinity for the Midwestern City....don't read too much into it or think I'm trying to start a discussion with locals about city versus city.

There is street life in some other cities, and there's also personal preference.
So I realize you're not trying to turn this into city vs. city, but I gotta chime in about the residential density numbers you quoted. Quite frankly they're rather meaningless for a whole city, other than in the most general sense. It also tells you very little about walkability. Neighborhoods with similar densities can be organized very differently. For example, you mentioned Mount Airy which has similar density to a neighborhood I lived in Northeast Philly as a kid. Yet I can walk 5 minutes to a train station, 5 minutes to a local bar and 10 minutes to a large commercial strip with bars, restaurants, theater, etc... Had to drive literally everywhere in the Northeast. Mt Airy is a weird example because within a couple blocks of Germantown ave in either direction it has very walkable and relatively dense set-up, and as you go further out, you start seeing bigger plots of land and larger houses, making things more spread out. So even within a neighborhood, an average density doesn't tell you much.

I don't know much about either Minneapolis or Chicago, only been to Chicago once and liked it quite a bit. The walkability felt similar to Philly, though a bit more spread out in the central district. I don't know if Chicago has anything comparable in density to South Philly for example, where you have tightly packed rowhouses as far as the eye can see. But on the whole, obviously it averages out to a very similar number. Don't know the first thing about Minneapolis, but I strongly doubt it's as urban and walkable as Philly, since none other mid-sized cities I've visited came close.
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,743 posts, read 7,845,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat View Post
The population densiity of Philadelphia as a whole is 11,635 per square mile. Chicago is 11,864. Per wikipedia anyway. Very similar. Philadelphia and Chicago have both experienced large population losses in the course of the last 50 years and small population gains in the recent past.
Right, but I think there are a lot of nuances in terms of density, which isn't necessarily captured by the aggregated figures you've cited.

Accounting for what is mostly attached single-family homes (rowhouses) and pretty narrow average street widths, these features are what contribute to more of a feeling/perception of density throughout the vast majority of Philadelphia compared to a standard Midwestern urban neighborhood.

This is why, overall, despite Philly being slightly less dense than Chicago by the aggregate measure, it is still considered a bit more walkable: https://www.walkscore.com/cities-and-neighborhoods/. In fact, if neighborhoods like Germantown and most of North Philly simply had more amenities/commercial presence, Philly's walk score would very easily be boosted pretty significantly, since the infrastructure/built-form is already in place to facilitate this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat View Post
But I was mostly just talking to the OP as someone else who has an affinity for the Midwestern City....don't read too much into it or think I'm trying to start a discussion with locals about city versus city.
I assure you that wasn't my intention at all and that I completely respect anyone's personal opinion. Just felt compelled to add some factual context to the conversation, as that often gets lost in these kinds of discussions.

Last edited by Duderino; 07-01-2016 at 09:25 AM..
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:23 AM
 
3,063 posts, read 2,637,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
First and foremost, I think--as some of your past posts alluded to--you and your friend have a fundamentally different experience as having come from a very different part of the country.

I'm certainly not faulting you for trying to find some familiarity or your comfort zone, but, and I'm saying this as someone who has also moved between different US regions, when you move somewhere that is relatively different, it can take a long time to embrace it for what it is. Even the East Coast is not uniformly the same. Boston, New York, Philly and DC all have their own unique atmospheres, even though they're often lumped together by sharing the same urban agglomeration.

That Philly is "uglier" or has "less to do" than Chicago may be something that you may always personally believe to be true, but at the very least it's important to try to continue to keep an open mind. If over 6 million people, with a wide range of backgrounds and many from across the world, find the Philly region suitable enough to serve as their home, I find it hard to be a bit hard to believe that someone from Chicago would feel like such a "fish out of water," so to speak, or that Chicago's suburbs are miraculously more entertaining. In both regions, the city would clearly be the center of activity.

As for your friend's job situation, finding a job definitely takes time. I've moved to/lived in both Boston and DC, and my job search experience in both situations could definitely be measured in months (not weeks). Salaries are also not necessarily accurate based on online postings--in fact, overall, Philly median wages are higher than those in Chicago: Education Requirements for Metro Area Jobs

Above all, your friend will definitely need to give it more time to find some success. I've been down the road of trying to feel established and settled in a new place, and it's not always fun or easy, but almost without fail it will take longer than you expect.



As I've said ad nauseum when this topic comes up, it's essentially useless to go down the road of city comparisons. You think Chicago is better than Philly? Fantastic--that's your perspective and opinion. For many, including someone like myself who has zero interest in ever living in the Midwest, the opposite would be true.

As everything else is in life, what is "best" comes down to personal perspective and priorities. That is literally never the same for any two people.
At this point, my opinion on Philadelphia is sorta moot for this situation. I told her how I felt about Philly, long before she moved out here--and she made the decision, independent of my feelings on it(obviously). Yes, it is true that I don't like this city, and I've been honest about that. I tried to have an open mind. As I've mentioned in other posts, I've lived other places. All that have been drastically different from one another. In each case, while it was always an adjustment period(up to 1.5 years before I truly felt at home), I grew to like the other cities I lived in. With Philly, that has not been the case. I believe it's for many reasons(some which actually have nothing to do with Philly, but more to do with the circumstances of my life and what brought me here) but nonetheless, mentally, "leaving" this city is akin to a fresh start. I'm sure in the new city I move in, I will have an open mind.

As for my friend, I've already told her to give it time.

Yesterday, she looked on craiglist to see about sublets in the MT. Airy area. I think she's really leaning toward that area, since it isn't too far from the suburbs, or the city. Unfortunately for the job situation, I've already told her that she may have to waitress or do some other ish like that, until she can find something "real" lol, because I myself looked on indeed with her last night, and also noticed that there aren't many jobs---at least not many that she qualifies for out here, so far. I've also told her to expand her job search to Delaware, Jersey, and MD.
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