U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Philadelphia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-30-2016, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Capitol Hill - Washington, DC
3,168 posts, read 4,802,934 times
Reputation: 3400

Advertisements

I'm well aware that Metro has its own issues, as do most transit companies throughout the country. I much prefer the Metro system as a whole to SEPTA, it is so much easier to use and get around the city with. It's my preference and my opinion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-30-2016, 12:16 PM
 
10,273 posts, read 5,934,396 times
Reputation: 3628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Becca8377 View Post
I'm well aware that Metro has its own issues, as do most transit companies throughout the country. I much prefer the Metro system as a whole to SEPTA, it is so much easier to use and get around the city with. It's my preference and my opinion.
Now that you have moved to DC, guess what? Regional Rail will be fully back starting Monday.

Maybe we weren't very good with the obvious explanation of why the Metro, at least designed-wise, is superior. There was the opportunity to create a brand new/ cohesive rail transit system in DC and for the most part it works.

The origins of Septa , as you know, is very different and started over a century ago from distinct private companies without the idea of creating an intertwined whole.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-30-2016, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
6,216 posts, read 3,048,381 times
Reputation: 3932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Becca8377 View Post
I'm well aware that Metro has its own issues, as do most transit companies throughout the country. I much prefer the Metro system as a whole to SEPTA, it is so much easier to use and get around the city with. It's my preference and my opinion.
Understood, and I understand why.

But the current physical and operational conditions at Metro are an order of magnitude worse than they are at most of the nation's other large transit agencies. Yes, all of them have some problems, but WMATA's have festered longer and they have more catching up to do.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2016, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Philaburbia
33,072 posts, read 61,890,891 times
Reputation: 55491
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013 View Post
I'm surprised that nobody has posted about this, but it has been confirmed by SEPTA that Regional Rail service will be restored to normal weekday schedules starting this Monday!
Dang! What will we complain about now?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2016, 10:16 AM
 
10,273 posts, read 5,934,396 times
Reputation: 3628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Becca8377 View Post
I saw that, but I just moved to DC on Tuesday so I won't have to deal with any SEPTA debacles anymore
Well...you are in DC so I'll try to keep this short. It's not fair to, generically, condemn Septa. Here's why. By virtue of the fact that you didn't live here long enough to have accumlated long term experience. And wasn't your experience mostly on the regional rail?

Having ridden the BSL, MFL, NHSL, subway surface routes for decades , with little to no service disruptions, I think Septa does a good job. The impressive engineering feat of rebuilding the western El structures, including new stations, power distribution...while keeping the El running was pretty amazing. That's been my experience with Septa(which predates Septa)including the knowledge that they've never been properly funded.

Interestingly I heard this weekend that Septa is going to further expand/improve regional rail trains with double-decker cars. They sound like they will be similar to the NJ transit double-decker cars.

I agree that regional rail mess this summer was awful. But look at it this way, if there had been an accident with those defective cars wouldn't that have been worse?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2016, 10:28 AM
 
10,273 posts, read 5,934,396 times
Reputation: 3628
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post



There was a suicide by train that made a mess of Broad Street Line service at Wednesday's evening rush, but you can't blame incidents like that on SEPTA. Injuries and deaths caused by operator error or equipment defects have been much, much rarer on the SEPTA system (all three rail modes) in more than a century of operation by it and its predecessors than they have been in the 40-year history of the Washington Metro.
No idea if there's any correlation but there seems to be fewer of these suicides while the ridership on the BSL has increased somewhat.

Not too long ago a Penn student was killed by the El at 40th St. That was ruled a suicide.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2016, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Capitol Hill - Washington, DC
3,168 posts, read 4,802,934 times
Reputation: 3400
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
Well...you are in DC so I'll try to keep this short. It's not fair to, generically, condemn Septa. Here's why. By virtue of the fact that you didn't live here long enough to have accumlated long term experience. And wasn't your experience mostly on the regional rail?

Having ridden the BSL, MFL, NHSL, subway surface routes for decades , with little to no service disruptions, I think Septa does a good job. The impressive engineering feat of rebuilding the western El structures, including new stations, power distribution...while keeping the El running was pretty amazing. That's been my experience with Septa(which predates Septa)including the knowledge that they've never been properly funded.

Interestingly I heard this weekend that Septa is going to further expand/improve regional rail trains with double-decker cars. They sound like they will be similar to the NJ transit double-decker cars.

I agree that regional rail mess this summer was awful. But look at it this way, if there had been an accident with those defective cars wouldn't that have been worse?
I don't know how many times I have to say this. It is MY opinion based on my experience with SEPTA. I prefer the DC Metro system as a whole over SEPTA. You have a different opinion based on your experiences and that's perfectly fine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2016, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Midwest
1,283 posts, read 1,881,190 times
Reputation: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
Well...you are in DC so I'll try to keep this short. It's not fair to, generically, condemn Septa. Here's why. By virtue of the fact that you didn't live here long enough to have accumlated long term experience. And wasn't your experience mostly on the regional rail?

Having ridden the BSL, MFL, NHSL, subway surface routes for decades , with little to no service disruptions, I think Septa does a good job. The impressive engineering feat of rebuilding the western El structures, including new stations, power distribution...while keeping the El running was pretty amazing. That's been my experience with Septa(which predates Septa)including the knowledge that they've never been properly funded.

Interestingly I heard this weekend that Septa is going to further expand/improve regional rail trains with double-decker cars. They sound like they will be similar to the NJ transit double-decker cars.

I agree that regional rail mess this summer was awful. But look at it this way, if there had been an accident with those defective cars wouldn't that have been worse?
I agree with you that the transit side of SEPTA is run pretty well.

But you can't just write off the experience of those who depend on regional rail. It's a large part of the system. It's really very poorly run. Even before the summer shenanigans. Things can go wrong, and you can be stuck on the track for incredible amounts of time without any kind of communication. Trains are cancelled at the last minute without any kind of communication. There are always crew shortages. There are always car shortages. Anything that does go wrong often has a big impact upon your personal life, as trains only run every 30-60 minutes. Employees work an incredible amount of hours. There is poor employee morale due to all of this to. I used to have the same poor conductor on my ride in from work and my ride home from work - 10 hours apart. And this sometimes presents itself in lackadaisical work attitudes and/or frustration.

You ought to check out some of the railfans forums if you think criticism of the septa railroad is done out of ignorance.

Also many people interested think that Hyundia should have never gotten that contract in the first place, going back to before the trains were even built, therefore the fact that there wasn't an accident doesn't placate them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2016, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
6,216 posts, read 3,048,381 times
Reputation: 3932
Quote:
Originally Posted by FamousBlueRaincoat View Post
I agree with you that the transit side of SEPTA is run pretty well.

But you can't just write off the experience of those who depend on regional rail. It's a large part of the system. It's really very poorly run. Even before the summer shenanigans. Things can go wrong, and you can be stuck on the track for incredible amounts of time without any kind of communication. Trains are cancelled at the last minute without any kind of communication. There are always crew shortages. There are always car shortages. Anything that does go wrong often has a big impact upon your personal life, as trains only run every 30-60 minutes. Employees work an incredible amount of hours. There is poor employee morale due to all of this to. I used to have the same poor conductor on my ride in from work and my ride home from work - 10 hours apart. And this sometimes presents itself in lackadaisical work attitudes and/or frustration.

You ought to check out some of the railfans forums if you think criticism of the septa railroad is done out of ignorance.

Also many people interested think that Hyundia should have never gotten that contract in the first place, going back to before the trains were even built, therefore the fact that there wasn't an accident doesn't placate them.
I'm sure you know I'm one of those railfans, right?

I'm well aware of the problems that have afflicted Regional Rail - as ridership on that system also continued to climb, making the problems worse.

A SEPTA insider told me some time back that one of the reasons SEPTA has a morale problem on Regional Rail (besides overworking the employees) is because the railroad people say the system is run by "bus people" who know nothing about running a railroad.

There's historical precedent for this, stretching back to the "Fox Chase-Newtown High-Speed Line" experiment in 1981, which ended abruptly a year later in that fiery crash at Southampton.

Mainline railroads and transit railways are indeed run (and built) differently here, and that's even before you get to the differing equipment specifications and safety standards.

My insider told me that engineers at SEPTA generally regard Regional Rail as a "farm team" where you learn the ropes before moving on to a real railroad like the LIRR, Metro-North or NJT. (I was also told that the pay scales don't help things any either.)

SEPTA management says this isn't the case anymore, but those canceled trains are the result of a severe manpower shortage on Regional Rail, exacerbated by the overwork you yourself observed. Adding to that is the fact that if a train runs late, the way the Railroad Division operates trains means that the lateness cascades throughout the schedule as the day progresses.

SEPTA recently took the Railroad Division out from under the same umbrella as the subway-elevated and light rail systems and appointed an RRD insider to run it. We'll see if this improves things any.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2016, 03:33 PM
 
10,273 posts, read 5,934,396 times
Reputation: 3628
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
I'm sure you know I'm one of those railfans, right?

I'm well aware of the problems that have afflicted Regional Rail - as ridership on that system also continued to climb, making the problems worse.

A SEPTA insider told me some time back that one of the reasons SEPTA has a morale problem on Regional Rail (besides overworking the employees) is because the railroad people say the system is run by "bus people" who know nothing about running a railroad.

There's historical precedent for this, stretching back to the "Fox Chase-Newtown High-Speed Line" experiment in 1981, which ended abruptly a year later in that fiery crash at Southampton.

Mainline railroads and transit railways are indeed run (and built) differently here, and that's even before you get to the differing equipment specifications and safety standards.

My insider told me that engineers at SEPTA generally regard Regional Rail as a "farm team" where you learn the ropes before moving on to a real railroad like the LIRR, Metro-North or NJT. (I was also told that the pay scales don't help things any either.)

SEPTA management says this isn't the case anymore, but those canceled trains are the result of a severe manpower shortage on Regional Rail, exacerbated by the overwork you yourself observed. Adding to that is the fact that if a train runs late, the way the Railroad Division operates trains means that the lateness cascades throughout the schedule as the day progresses.

SEPTA recently took the Railroad Division out from under the same umbrella as the subway-elevated and light rail systems and appointed an RRD insider to run it. We'll see if this improves things any.
Does it mean anything that Septa's Regional Rail has, to my knowledge, never had a deadly accident like the really bad one on the Metro-North a couple of years ago wrt the engineer speeding through a curve or the NJT collision into the Hoboken Station last week? Sounds like there may be some over-confidence involved especially with the Metro-North accident.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Philadelphia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top