Groceries, Grocery stores, & Supermarkets (Ardmore, Middletown: housing, residential, Walmart)

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by Hannah5555

I don’t know about the zoning laws, but there’s a huge empty lot at 48th and Locust/Spruce that would be good. I know there’s an Aldi at 46th and Market so maybe there aren’t enough people to support both. Would be nice to have another option tho.

There are 2 options for grocery stores that I can think of to go in near that Aldi. First would be a Lidl. The 2nd would be Walmart Neighborhood Market. Walmart has been testing their Neighborhood Markets in the Carolinas for about 4 or 5 years. If they feel that it's working on the east coast, they could expand into Philadelphia & South Jersey, since Ahold failed 2 times, they aren't likely to try again.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by Flyers Girl

I love this! That's going to be my new term for those hideous "town centers" like the one in KOP, Main Street in Exton, and Providence Town Center in Collegeville. They're not downtowns, they're faux downtowns off of major highways. Just like subdivisions and housing developments. There's no walking to these places, only walking around while in these places. You drive there, park, walk around, get in your car when you're done, and drive away.

Originally Posted by cpomp

Not to get off topic, but from a development standpoint, the Village at Valley Forge (Kop town center) is quite well done for a modern take on a walk-able "downtown" Most town centers (like the one in Exton) aren't really trying to create a downtown, but more a walk-able strip mall.

The KoP district is actually infusing walk-ability into the district due to its massive growth in recent years. While the KoP town center still fails at certain aspects (like the sea of parking),
it does quite well infusing A LOT of residential units (rent and buy) right in the center of the development, as well as decent architecture, public space/ green space, walking trails, cafes with street frontage, and actual streets with sidewalks that aren't parking lots.

I am not trying to be a spokesperson for the project, I just know a good result when I see one, and the KoP town center is by far the best attempt I have seen yet, and there is actually potential. It could be a lot worse, so the constant damnation of a project like this doesn't make much sense to me.
It kind of reminds me of a modern day take on Suburban Square in Ardmore, which at one point was new and probably disliked as well.

I generally share cpomp's assessment of the Village at Valley Forge. From the roads surrounding it, it looks like another mall surrounded by a parking lot, but all the internal components fit together perfectly - far, far, far better than I've seen at any other attempt to build a "new town center" in this region, including the demalled malls in this category.

The Village at Valley Forge also has the distinction of being home to the only Wegmans supermarket I've seen that you can actually approach on foot.

My term for these developments is "Instant Urbanism." Cherry Hill had a golden opportunity to produce some Instant Urbanism on the Garden State Park racetrack site and blew it completely. They'll just have to continue driving south for about a mile or so to drink in the actual urbanism of Haddonfield.

But I doubt Suburban Square was met with derision when it opened in 1930. Like its predecessor the Country Club Plaza, it's knit into the fabric of the district surrounding it in a way none of our post-World War II shopping centers have been, not even the Instant Urbanist ones (because the districts surrounding them have no fabric for them to be knit into).

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Lidl is coming. Off the top of my head, they have the stores in Middletown, DE & Vineland. They have an old Acme in Mantua, in South Jersey, a property in Cherry Hill, & in Philadelphia. They also have several properties in the Pennsylvania suburbs. They're definitely coming, but they're completely off schedule. The Philadelphia market stores should have all opened this year. The 1st US manager screwed things up so badly that they had a moratorium on all building for months. It was so bad that the owner debated throwing in the towel.

I was talking to an employee last week at Lidl. She was saying that it was actually worse that what was made public. The 2 Germans who were sent over to clean up the mess are doing very well. Since this is the Philadelphia board, I won't go into great detail on the other areas. There's a grocery thread on the Charlotte board, several that include Lidl on the Raleigh/Durham/Triangle board, & several Lidl threads on the Greenville/Spartanburg SC board.

The US Lidls have small in-house bakeries. The stores are different than but similar to Aldi. Right now they need to turn more properties into stores. I suppose that it's not helping the Philadelphia market that there have been pickets at the Vineland store for months.

Why the pickets?

[Hannah5555]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

There are 2 options for grocery stores that I can think of to go in near that Aldi. First would be a Lidl. The 2nd would be Walmart Neighborhood Market. Walmart has been testing their Neighborhood Markets in the Carolinas for about 4 or 5 years. If they feel that it's working on the east coast, they could expand into Philadelphia & South Jersey, since Ahold failed 2 times, they aren't likely to try again.

Walmart Neighborhood Market would be a great idea.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

I generally share cpomp's assessment of the Village at Valley Forge. From the roads surrounding it, it looks like another mall surrounded by a parking lot, but all the internal components fit together perfectly - far, far, far better than I've seen at any other attempt to build a "new town center" in this region, including the demalled malls in this category.

The Village at Valley Forge also has the distinction of being home to the only Wegmans supermarket I've seen that you can actually approach on foot.

My term for these developments is "Instant Urbanism." Cherry Hill had a golden opportunity to produce some Instant Urbanism on the Garden State Park racetrack site and blew it completely. They'll just have to continue driving south for about a mile or so to drink in the actual urbanism of Haddonfield.

But I doubt Suburban Square was met with derision when it opened in 1930. Like its predecessor the Country Club Plaza, it's knit into the fabric of the district surrounding it in a way none of our post-World War II shopping centers have been, not even the Instant Urbanist ones (because the districts surrounding them have no fabric for them to be knit into).



Why the pickets?

Good question. The retail clerks union never bothered Aldi. The setup doesn't work for unionizing. Plus, Aldi & Lidl pay $12 an hour. On the other hand, it might be a trade union. I just don't have a clue.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by Hannah5555

Walmart Neighborhood Market would be a great idea.

At last, a name that you're familiar with.

The Walmart Neighborhood Markets in NC & SC are a test to see if the concept will fly on the east coast. They're stocked out of the same distribution centers as the super stores.

[southbound_295]

This thread really is just for groceries & the stores that sell them. If there's a grocery store that someone wants to comment on at the town centers, feel free.

There are 2 threads where the town centers belong. I started this thread because grocery questions & comments were being lost in the other threads & the same things were being repeated over & over. This keeps the grocery stuff together.

[Hannah5555]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

At last, a name that you're familiar with..

That’s puzzling. I don’t shop at Walmart for political reasons, although when we lived in New Orleans, sometimes we had no choice. My go to stores previously were Safeway (Acme), Trader Joe’s (Aldi) and Whole Foods. Wegman’s is new although I’ve noticed you can spend a lot more than you think if you don’t buy the products that are on sale .

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by Hannah5555

That’s puzzling. I don’t shop at Walmart for political reasons, although when we lived in New Orleans, sometimes we had no choice. My go to stores previously were Safeway (Acme), Trader Joe’s (Aldi) and Whole Foods. Wegman’s is new although I’ve noticed you can spend a lot more than you think if you don’t buy the products that are on sale .

Oh, so your response was sarcastic?

Since Walmart Neighborhood Market was west coast only until testing started in the Carolinas, I thought that it rang a bell of recognition. I'm not a fan of Walmart, but it's a possibility, & would be the fastest possibility to go into that area.

[Hannah5555]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Oh, so your response was sarcastic?

Since Walmart Neighborhood Market was west coast only until testing started in the Carolinas, I thought that it rang a bell of recognition. I'm not a fan of Walmart, but it's a possibility, & would be the fastest possibility to go into that area.

No, not at all. I just wouldn’t shop there unless I had to.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by Hannah5555

No, not at all. I just wouldn’t shop there unless I had to.

Lidl would be the better choice to go near the Aldi, but that could be a year or two. The only store that could open in that location, quickly, would be Walmart Neighborhood Market. You also have to take into consideration that there's a large number of students. The Aldi/Lidl combination would clean up in that area.