If the PATCO Speedline was well-integrated with the rest of SEPTA, which direction makes sense for an expansion? (Philadelphia: 2013, house)

[OyCrumbler]

Basically, the topic.

Philadelphia has about as much heavy rail transit as Boston if you include the PATCO Speedline. Now if it were something to be used for residents of Philadelphia as well, where would an extension of it within the city make the most sense after the 15–16th & Locust station?

[2e1m5a]

Dream scenario for me would be to have it continue on to 22nd then it would head North along 22nd passing the Barnes, Rodin, Art Museum and Boat House Row along Pennsylvania Ave using the tunnel already there. From there it could run up 33rd Street and connect with Ridge Ave.

[PhilliesPhan2013]

Three directions make sense for a PATCO extension:

1.) North: 2e1m5a pretty much covered an ideal northward expansion. Potential stops could include Market West (22nd and Market), Parkway (22nd and BF Parkway), Art Museum, and other stops along 33rd Street and Ridge Avenue. Ideally, the end point could be Bells Mills Road in Andorra. This would give residents of Northwest and North Philly easy access to Center City and New Jersey.

2.) West: After passing under Rittenhouse Square, a new tunnel could run under Walnut Street west through Center City. Stops would include 22nd/23rd Street and 30th Street. From there, I could see it running either straight to 38th Street or making a left on 33rd Street and terminating in the Health Complex.

3.) South: What if CSX was willing to allow PATCO to run along the 25th Street Viaduct? It can accommodate three tracks, after all. After passing under Rittenhouse Square via Locust Street, it could make a left turn running under 22nd Street and reaching Grays Ferry Avenue. It could then emerge near Washington Avenue and run along the viaduct, and potentially run all the way to the airport! Stops could include: Graduate Hospital (22nd and South), Southwest Center City (Grays Ferry Avenue and Christian Street), Grays Ferry, (between Reed and Wharton), Point Breeze (between Morris and Moore Streets), Snyder, Passyunk, Packer Park (Penrose Avenue), Fort Mifflin, and all the PHL terminals.

In each case, a station at Rittenhouse Square (18th and Locust) should be included.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013

Three directions make sense for a PATCO extension:

1.) North: 2e1m5a pretty much covered an ideal northward expansion. Potential stops could include Market West (22nd and Market), Parkway (22nd and BF Parkway), Art Museum, and other stops along 33rd Street and Ridge Avenue. Ideally, the end point could be Bells Mills Road in Andorra. This would give residents of Northwest and North Philly easy access to Center City and New Jersey.

2.) West: After passing under Rittenhouse Square, a new tunnel could run under Walnut Street west through Center City. Stops would include 22nd/23rd Street and 30th Street. From there, I could see it running either straight to 38th Street or making a left on 33rd Street and terminating in the Health Complex.

3.) South: What if CSX was willing to allow PATCO to run along the 25th Street Viaduct? It can accommodate three tracks, after all. After passing under Rittenhouse Square via Locust Street, it could make a left turn running under 22nd Street and reaching Grays Ferry Avenue. It could then emerge near Washington Avenue and run along the viaduct, and potentially run all the way to the airport! Stops could include: Graduate Hospital (22nd and South), Southwest Center City (Grays Ferry Avenue and Christian Street), Grays Ferry, (between Reed and Wharton), Point Breeze (between Morris and Moore Streets), Snyder, Passyunk, Packer Park (Penrose Avenue), Fort Mifflin, and all the PHL terminals.

In each case, a station at Rittenhouse Square (18th and Locust) should be included.

Not a single word about where the money would come from to do this stuff. Lol Just a question. Where exactly would place a station entrance at 18th and Locust? Next to Curtis? Near the Barclay. Next to Parc? Sure put an ugly subway stairway entrance right next to Rittenhouse Sq. No!

Look, you may live to see an extension of the BSL to the Navy Yard while I probably will not. The NHSL spur to KoP? I'm not convinced that will happen anytime soon no matter what is said about the project.

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Not a single word about where the money would come from to do this stuff. Lol Just a question. Where exactly would place a station entrance at 18th and Locust? Next to Curtis? Near the Barclay. Next to Parc? Sure put an ugly subway stairway entrance right next to Rittenhouse Sq. No!

Look, you may live to see an extension of the BSL to the Navy Yard while I probably will not. The NHSL spur to KoP? I'm not convinced that will happen anytime soon no matter what is said about the project.

Budget discussions on CD are kind of irrelevant, no? But I do agree about not having a stop at Rittenhouse. Ideally, you would cut south to Spruce or even Pine and have a stop near Fitler. Fitler is kind of hidden with no good rapid transit options.

[newmarlig]

Not an expansion, but I would like a stop around 3rd and Market. I also think 16th and Locust is close enough to 18th and Locust, but 21st-22nd and Locust would be good.

[1ondoner]

I'm not a fan of mass transit because it's neither a cheap nor efficient means of transport. In addition it only works for densely populated areas which I also detest.

What I'm trying to say is that mass transit is usually a bad solution for densely populated cities mainly because of cost constraints. The alternative is well planned cities with affordable housing which negate the need for mass transit.

Higher fares would make mass transit better but commuters want a cheaper tickets, which results in a bad mass transit system. A good mass transit system, would require higher ticket prices.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by 1ondoner

I'm not a fan of mass transit because it's neither a cheap nor efficient means of transport. In addition it only works for densely populated areas which I also detest.

What I'm trying to say is that mass transit is usually a bad solution for densely populated cities mainly because of cost constraints. The alternative is well planned cities with affordable housing which negate the need for mass transit.

Higher fares would make mass transit better but commuters want a cheaper tickets, which results in a bad mass transit system. A good mass transit system, would require higher ticket prices.

It might behoove you to learn about why the first subway was built in New York City and what it did there. It's a century old story but some of the incentive for it still applies today.

[1ondoner]

Ah, New York city subway. An over-crowded, crumbling relic of the 19th century.

Comes a close second to Paris subway in terms of filth. At least I haven't smelt **** on the NYC subway but I'm sure there's evidence of human excrement in some stations.

We're in the 21st century. Tell me about flying hoover boards.

Originally Posted by kyb01

It might behoove you to learn about why the first subway was built in New York City and what it did there. It's a century old story but some of the incentive for it still applies today.

[MB1562]

Originally Posted by 1ondoner

Comes a close second to Paris subway in terms of filth. At least I haven't smelt **** on the NYC subway but I'm sure there's evidence of human excrement in some stations.

The New York Subway is more disgusting then the Paris Metro.