Solutions to stop division (Philadelphia, Erie: renting, how much, neighborhood)

[chessimprov]

A solution to stop division is to develop centers that are somehow able to integrate with the particular local community in a way that contributes to improving their standard of living. How to do that without spending a ton of unavailable tax payer dollars is another question.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by 1ondoner

I know what you are saying but I kind of disagree that income is income.

Starting a business i.e. business income, involves putting one's capital at risk plus they may have to borrow to finance their business. Going to work of the other hand, i.e. employment income, does not involve taking much risk to make money. You show up to work, do your thing and at the end of the pay period, you get a paycheck.

The current income designations should stay in place. Real estate taxes should be made progressive, they are in the UK. If you own a 10 million dollar monstrosity, you should be taxed at a higher rate. Such "investments", add no value to the society in general. Buy a private plane, get taxed a lot more. Day trading stocks should attract more taxes, does little to contribute to liquidity in the stock market and just rewards short sightedness in the business world.. This trickle down BS needs to stop, it doesn't work, never will.

PS. Before anyone accuses me of being a socialist or advocating for wealth redistribution, please note I'm one of the beneficiaries of our convoluted tax system.

Nothing wrong with socialism except that it doesn't work as advertised.

A little redistribution could save a lot of social upheaval, but it seems we need to experience the social upheaval to drive that point home. I'd advocate for a "negative income tax" - a form of "guaranteed basic income" that's simple to administer and maximizes agency for the recipients. (The difference between a "negative income tax" and a "guaranteed basic income" is that everyone gets the latter while only those who don't earn enough to pass the threshold for getting it get the former).

Still, writes the guy who lives on a block that has had three instant memorials sprout at either end within the last year, two of them on the same building (a "stop 'n' go" that police have identified as a trouble spot), there are some cultural elements to all this.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by lpranger467

Great point by you and everyone else. KYB01 I guess I apologized because I have given some conservative viewpoints in the past and therefore this post may have seemed contradictory to past posts and my apology is my way of trying to make light of what may appear to be my waivering viewpoint.

"I contradict myself? Very well then, I contradict myself." -Walt Whitman, "Song of Myself"

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds." -old proverb, author unknown

No need to apologize. I'd say that one of our big problems these days is that too many of us are inflexibly ideological.

The point is to solve the problem, not ensure that a certain world view or philosophy is followed.

That said, err towards the side of freedom if one must err, but don't forget that everyone deserves equal treatment and that there is such a thing as community.

[1ondoner]

I'm sure you'll agree with me, that the social issues are very complex and can't be solved with simple solutions.

Why are some people poor? I believe its a combination of factors, mainly poor decision making, lack of discipline and limited innate abilities. The first 2 can be "easily" addressed, while the third one requires a bit of effort (education and/or training) to change and for some, it can't be changed much. Yesterday, Ben Carson said that poverty is a state of the mind, which I agree.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/u...mind.html?_r=0

I support the welfare system, although it requires an overhaul because it is broken. Everyone needs help at some point in their life and this can make a long term difference if they don't fall through the cracks when they are at their worst. I'm not sure what a better welfare system would look like because any discussions about welfare always seems to draw a rabid response from either side of the divide.

If you have time, the following article may interest you. It goes further than what Ben Carson said yesterday and warrants further research.

The Grim Biology of Being Poor

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Nothing wrong with socialism except that it doesn't work as advertised.

A little redistribution could save a lot of social upheaval, but it seems we need to experience the social upheaval to drive that point home. I'd advocate for a "negative income tax" - a form of "guaranteed basic income" that's simple to administer and maximizes agency for the recipients. (The difference between a "negative income tax" and a "guaranteed basic income" is that everyone gets the latter while only those who don't earn enough to pass the threshold for getting it get the former).

Still, writes the guy who lives on a block that has had three instant memorials sprout at either end within the last year, two of them on the same building (a "stop 'n' go" that police have identified as a trouble spot), there are some cultural elements to all this.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by 1ondoner

I'm sure you'll agree with me, that the social issues are very complex and can't be solved with simple solutions.

Why are some people poor? I believe its a combination of factors, mainly poor decision making, lack of discipline and limited innate abilities. The first 2 can be "easily" addressed, while the third one requires a bit of effort (education and/or training) to change and for some, it can't be changed much. Yesterday, Ben Carson said that poverty is a state of the mind, which I agree.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/u...mind.html?_r=0

I support the welfare system, although it requires an overhaul because it is broken. Everyone needs help at some point in their life and this can make a long term difference if they don't fall through the cracks when they are at their worst. I'm not sure what a better welfare system would look like because any discussions about welfare always seems to draw a rabid response from either side of the divide.

If you have time, the following article may interest you. It goes further than what Ben Carson said yesterday and warrants further research.

The Grim Biology of Being Poor

I'd +1 this if it weren't for those (IMO needless) requirements C-D bakes into the discussion board software that require members to "spread Reputation around before giving it to [a certain person] twice."

[Spreadofknowledge]

Flash mobs are not as common in Philly as they are in many other cities. Though, when it does happen its usually a gang of blacks (ages 14-25) picking on hipster whites (Temple area, center city, Uni. city). There was even a incident in Kensington/Port richmond area where hispanic/Puerto rican teens joined in with black teens to pick on whites. And for years, black teens were terrorizing asian teens in a high school in south philly. Look it up.

Philadelphia has high levels of segregation and racial tension, on par or close to that of Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, St Louis etc. Philly is also a mostly blue collar working class city (probably the biggest mostly blue collar city in america), but its most dangerous and poorest neighborhoods are by far the Hispanic & black neighborhoods (not all of them are terrible obviously), but these ghettos tend to be very insular and not very accepting of outsiders especially of another race or social class, so unlike in many other cities gentrification will have a harder time actually making progress, most of North Philly & West Philly probably wont gentrify ANYYY time soon mostly becuz of extreme crime n poverty and low tolerance for outsiders, hipster whites can be seen walking the streets of harlem n bedstuy without a worry in the world they are largely accepted there, i cant imagine that happening in most of North Philly in my lifetime and im in my 20s. Its a beautiful city but no where near perfect in terms of "racial harmony".

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by 1ondoner

If you have time, the following article may interest you. It goes further than what Ben Carson said yesterday and warrants further research.

The Grim Biology of Being Poor

I finally read this - and shared it with my Facebook audience (and will also Tweet it), I think this is that important.

Basically, it throws all our assumptions about poverty and social mobility into a cocked hat.

But the funny thing is, its exploration of the biology behind poverty also illuminates the ways in which poorer Americans are just like stock traders - or perhaps more accurately, hedge fund managers and derivatives traders (which is the author's day job).

They're making decisions based on extremely short time horizons in a volatile, high-risk environment in which the downside risk could wipe you out. (This IMO also goes a long way towards explaining why the bulk of state lottery players fall into the lower income brackets: In that case, the downside risk is minimal - you're out the money you spent on the tickets - but the upside potential enormous (depending on the game you play).)

Markets HATE "extreme volatility." The thing most investors are looking for is steady, dependable returns. That's what most lower-income Americans would love to have, but they're totally disconnected from all the mechanisms that might produce it.

What this guy's proposing is "redistribution" of a different sort, namely, redistribution of stability and reduction of stress. This is not only not "welfare as we know it" but not really welfare as we've come to understand it - though he does mention some programs already extant that show potential to achieve the kind of redistribution the author seeks.

But basically, it requires all of us to rethink our thinking about poverty. That's going to be a VERY tall order.

Thank you ever so much for calling this article to my attention.

[Huckleberry3911948]

When we contribute to our families and our community even in small amounts respect is the immediate outcome this radically changes behavior like no other factor
No element is a greater effect than respect
Not money not clothes, stuff, group membership, not job programs, not
Possessions
No - respect generated by giving to community and family
Giving not money but of ourselves
Is the great healer

[thedirtypirate]

I think fixing up public facilities such as parks, rec centers, pools, and schools is a good place to start. Finding a 21st century solution to our archaic trash collection system is important too.

I also think increasing the budget of the Land Bank would do some good. They only have a budget for something like 132 houses a year. Which might seem like a lot, but when there are tens of thousands of abandonment's, 132 is just a drop in the bucket.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Spreadofknowledge

Flash mobs are not as common in Philly as they are in many other cities. Though, when it does happen its usually a gang of blacks (ages 14-25) picking on hipster whites (Temple area, center city, Uni. city). There was even a incident in Kensington/Port richmond area where hispanic/Puerto rican teens joined in with black teens to pick on whites. And for years, black teens were terrorizing asian teens in a high school in south philly. Look it up.

Philadelphia has high levels of segregation and racial tension, on par or close to that of Baltimore, Detroit, Chicago, St Louis etc. Philly is also a mostly blue collar working class city (probably the biggest mostly blue collar city in america), but its most dangerous and poorest neighborhoods are by far the Hispanic & black neighborhoods (not all of them are terrible obviously), but these ghettos tend to be very insular and not very accepting of outsiders especially of another race or social class, so unlike in many other cities gentrification will have a harder time actually making progress, most of North Philly & West Philly probably wont gentrify ANYYY time soon mostly becuz of extreme crime n poverty and low tolerance for outsiders, hipster whites can be seen walking the streets of harlem n bedstuy without a worry in the world they are largely accepted there, i cant imagine that happening in most of North Philly in my lifetime and im in my 20s. Its a beautiful city but no where near perfect in terms of "racial harmony".

In short, there isn't much that can be done.