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Between the end of the Civil War &, roughly, 1900 that whole area was developed. I did some intensive research of the area while studying something that happened in an extended portion of my family in the late 1800s. Around 1900, large twins were torn down & replaced with small, plain rowhouses. The cross streets still have the twins.
I had a street address & did a Google street view tour of blocks mentioned in many newspaper articles from the time. Many row houses have vanished, leaving empty lots. However, that's why I know that twins remain on many of the cross streets. Someone ought to look at some of those blocks & build brick twins, to blend with what's left on the cross streets.
I was actually walking along one of those side streets last night while enjoying the snow: the 2100 block of Uber Street (between Diamond and Susquehanna). There are also gorgeous twin homes on the 1500 (?) block of Gratz Street and the 1600 block of N. 17th Street. From what I've gathered, this neighborhood used to be pretty affluent before the Great Depression. This can also be witnessed when walking along North Broad and taking a look at the mansions, such as the one on Broad and Jefferson.
I completely agree that someone should build replacements, which is why I think that more blocks in the neighborhood should be designated as historic corridors. Diamond Street has this protection, and there are awesome new buildings rising on the 1400 and 1800 blocks!
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013
I was actually walking along one of those side streets last night while enjoying the snow: the 2100 block of Uber Street (between Diamond and Susquehanna). There are also gorgeous twin homes on the 1500 (?) block of Gratz Street and the 1600 block of N. 17th Street. From what I've gathered, this neighborhood used to be pretty affluent before the Great Depression. This can also be witnessed when walking along North Broad and taking a look at the mansions, such as the one on Broad and Jefferson.
I completely agree that someone should build replacements, which is why I think that more blocks in the neighborhood should be designated as historic corridors. Diamond Street has this protection, and there are awesome new buildings rising on the 1400 and 1800 blocks!
Without giving away too much, because I plan to write about it, the research was involving a crime. The people lived on Montgomery, west of Broad. A doctor was summoned, who lived a few blocks west, on Columbia, now Cecil B Moore. A nearby grocer was also mentioned. Oh, & it was the 23rd precinct even back then.
When I was researching the area, a house on the block was on the market. It was dated as ~1900. I checked maps & found that it was built up between the end of the Civil War & 1900 through that area. I called the Free Library to find out who l could call to find out what housing was there prior to 1900. They had someone & he told me that it was all brick twins.
I don't know how you could make that assessment. I completely disagree. One of my best friends lives at 16th and girard. I go up there pretty frequently and I can't believe how many 4/5 story apartment buildings there are. Ridge from Broad to 18th is some of the most fascinatingly dense infill redevelopment the entire city has seen.
There's literally an 19th century Opera house being redone by the nation's largest concert promoter, at least 4 high rise apartment buildings just breaking ground ('the nest' isn't even being marketed to students), and tons of infill. It hasn't happened overnight either. It has been happening slowly for at least 5-6 years.
I still stand by what I said. I don't agree with your statements to the point it calls into the question of your knowledge on the topic. North Broad St.'s renaissance and reinvestment is probably one of the most intriguing aspects of Philadelphia in 2017.
I thought PhilliesPhan was pretty clear in the fact that he meant 'Templetown' stood for a collection of neighborhoods in the same manner as the University City District. Not that UCity and Templetown are competition with one another. Lower North Philly offers affordable, interesting urban living, with good transportation. Not a lot of places can say that. And it's safer than other fringe gentrifying areas. I have friends living in PB too and I rather walk around near Girard than down there.
Much of what you are talking about is in Francisville. The long-timers who have been there since forever have not, it seems, resisted any of the new development. It's mind-blowing what's going on there. I've been in the general area for long time and it's just logic to me that this development would leap across Fairmount Ave, on to Poplar and Girard.
Speaking of PB I have a new friend who recently moved here from LA. She bought a house in PB. Its "issues" didn't stop her.
My feeling is that a directed development for high density in Glenwood would cement some space for Templetown to grow and stabilize its northern parts. Glenwood is essentially where many of the regional rail lines close off their "loop" with the tracks intersecting near where North Philadelphia and North Broad Street stations are with a connection to Broad Street Subway. These are all close to each other and the building of a large complex uniting these with more frequent stops for regional rail can make large high-density development work for the area. If Glenwood gets that development then the diciest part neighboring Templetown makes it less of a potential drag.
The reason "Templetown" isn't following the trajectory of University City after Penn's interventions (a collection of strategies and projects that I refer to as the "Penn Urban Revitalization Playbook"*) is twofold:
One, the neighborhood lacked the middle-class resident base still extant in University City even in the days when crime scared the bejeezus out of all the Penn students;
Two, the new construction in Cecil B. Moore in particular is housing designed for students, not adults or long-term households. Its quality, moreover, isn't even up to the level of the cheaper stuff being thrown up in Brewerytown, at least if the exterior materials chosen for some of them are any indication.
Student housing alone won't turn a neighborhood around. Housing for longer-term occupancy by adults (young or otherwise) is necessary to establish the kind of customer base that can support new year-round neighborhood businesses and similar improvements.
If there is to be long-term revitalization for western North Central Philadelphia, it will arrive through Strawberry Mansion primarily and spread east from there. I've been hearing noises to the effect that builders are beginning to nose around the fringes of the neighborhood. The Eastern Lofts project at Cecil B. Moore and Glenwood avenues is an early, ahead-of-its-time forerunner.
*The "Penn Urban Revitalization Playbook" had many callable plays in it: building new shops (in particular a supermarket) as neighborhood anchors; stepped-up safety patrols and street cleanings; various assistance programs for homeowners, including forgiveable loans for home improvements; low-interest mortgages and a university-supported public school.
Since it was "written," every university in this region that's located in a challenged neighborhood and has two nickels to rub together has run plays from it. Drexel doesn't need to run them all because it can ride on what Penn did before it. Widener University in Chester has come closer to running the whole package than any other school, right down to the university-supported public school (a charter) and new mixed-use buildings but minus the supermarket and loan programs for those who live or settle in the immediate neighborhood. Temple keeps botching the plays it calls by not running them through huddles with the neighbors. The strip mall that includes the supermarket where I shop was the only play La Salle had the resources to run, and as far as it went, it was successful, but it really couldn't spark any larger transformation either.
It will be interesting to see if Temple learns anything from its past mis-executions.
My feeling is that a directed development for high density in Glenwood would cement some space for Templetown to grow and stabilize its northern parts. Glenwood is essentially where many of the regional rail lines close off their "loop" with the tracks intersecting near where North Philadelphia and North Broad Street stations are with a connection to Broad Street Subway. These are all close to each other and the building of a large complex uniting these with more frequent stops for regional rail can make large high-density development work for the area. If Glenwood gets that development then the diciest part neighboring Templetown makes it less of a potential drag.
An out-of-town developer announced a rather large, multi-phased mixed-use project for the land around the shopping mall at North Philadelphia Station early this year.
I think the first phase will consist of converting an existing industrial building on the proposed project site to apartments.
Thanks for this conversation. Very interesting to me. Curious y'alls thoughts on this? Its value, the location, how much you think it would rent for, and would that most likely be to two Temple students?
Can't wait to see the designs and the pieces facing Broad and how it is all incorporated.
I predict retail facing broad also possibly along Norris and classrooms and facilities along 16th.
Anyone arguing that the little crappy field along broad that gets trash thrown in it all day long is a better use of a city block needs to get their head checked.
Last edited by thedirtypirate; 12-19-2017 at 06:29 PM..
Thanks for this conversation. Very interesting to me. Curious y'alls thoughts on this? Its value, the location, how much you think it would rent for, and would that most likely be to two Temple students?
I own two properties in the temple area, both student housing and both on the other side of Broad
Keys for rentals are to be within the perimeter of the temple police this I believe is just outside
Generally most properties go by value per bedroom, I would guess this could generate 400-475 per bedroom per month so 800-950 maybe will increase
this is my guess, sort of educated but by no means professional
some folks are still shying away from that side though maybe is a good time to get in, that price is ok and even at 30% down (20 probably as isn't a two unit so doesn't require commercial lending)
given say 20% down and mortgage this place would be cash neutral to very slightly above, maybe if you could get 1K or more it could generate 200 bucks a month. factor in misc and maint costs closer to a wash
I think there are better deals to be had in the area as investment properties to be honest
The reason "Templetown" isn't following the trajectory of University City after Penn's interventions (a collection of strategies and projects that I refer to as the "Penn Urban Revitalization Playbook"*) is twofold:
One, the neighborhood lacked the middle-class resident base still extant in University City even in the days when crime scared the bejeezus out of all the Penn students;
Two, the new construction in Cecil B. Moore in particular is housing designed for students, not adults or long-term households. Its quality, moreover, isn't even up to the level of the cheaper stuff being thrown up in Brewerytown, at least if the exterior materials chosen for some of them are any indication.
Student housing alone won't turn a neighborhood around. Housing for longer-term occupancy by adults (young or otherwise) is necessary to establish the kind of customer base that can support new year-round neighborhood businesses and similar improvements.
If there is to be long-term revitalization for western North Central Philadelphia, it will arrive through Strawberry Mansion primarily and spread east from there. I've been hearing noises to the effect that builders are beginning to nose around the fringes of the neighborhood. The Eastern Lofts project at Cecil B. Moore and Glenwood avenues is an early, ahead-of-its-time forerunner.
*The "Penn Urban Revitalization Playbook" had many callable plays in it: building new shops (in particular a supermarket) as neighborhood anchors; stepped-up safety patrols and street cleanings; various assistance programs for homeowners, including forgiveable loans for home improvements; low-interest mortgages and a university-supported public school.
Since it was "written," every university in this region that's located in a challenged neighborhood and has two nickels to rub together has run plays from it. Drexel doesn't need to run them all because it can ride on what Penn did before it. Widener University in Chester has come closer to running the whole package than any other school, right down to the university-supported public school (a charter) and new mixed-use buildings but minus the supermarket and loan programs for those who live or settle in the immediate neighborhood. Temple keeps botching the plays it calls by not running them through huddles with the neighbors. The strip mall that includes the supermarket where I shop was the only play La Salle had the resources to run, and as far as it went, it was successful, but it really couldn't spark any larger transformation either.
It will be interesting to see if Temple learns anything from its past mis-executions.
I agree with everything you stated. Templetown's revitalization feels different than what has been going on in other areas of the city. Although there is a ton of new housing that has gone up, it has mainly been targeted towards cash-strapped college students like myself. I think that bringing middle-class people to the neighborhood can be easy if Temple takes a greater level of involvement in it, particularly in the Cecil B. Moore portion. With the abundance of gorgeous three-story homes that include magnificent ornamentation (something a lot of these college kids take for granted), multiple parks, and a new community center, it has the bones to be a nice middle-class neighborhood. I believe that Temple should do an extra trash cleanup day utilizing its own trucks, reach out to businesses and help facilitate their moves to either Cecil B. Moore, North Broad, or Susquehanna, and sponsor a local school or two.
Can't wait to see the designs and the pieces facing Broad and how it is all incorporated.
I predict retail facing broad also possibly along Norris and classrooms and facilities along 16th.
Anyone arguing that the little crappy field along broad that gets trash thrown in it all day long is a better use of a city block needs to get their head checked.
There is literally no point of having that field at Broad and Norris. Having a mixed-use stadium at a key intersection of the neighborhood would do wonders for North Broad. Throw in some retail, classrooms, athletic facilities, and a community center and the stadium becomes a wonderful asset.
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