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my wife see's it play out everyday in Strawberry Mansion because parents in that neighborhood think the public school is a baby sitting service.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MB1562
I never said it didn't. Of course the quality of the school and teachers matter. I've worked in a public charter in a very rough section of West Philly, a very expensive private school in New Jersey, and now a high quality public charter back in the city. Parents are the single biggest factors in educational success at any level. If they aren't given stability and support at home, a huge chunk of the battle has already been lost. I've seen it play out time and time again over my 5 years teaching.
I'm sure there are plenty of parents who are scared of enrolling their children in black majority schools, but it's not everyone. My ex-wife was black and her family was black as well. No concerns from my end. I don't really care what color or ethnicity someone is. They're either raised well with a good family or they're not.
The schools in Mt. Airy, despite talking to parents, have a lot of problems. I know this because the scores tell me so, I talk to parents in the neighborhood, and in part, because they have the same resource/teacher issues that many other Philadelphia public schools have. We can talk about race all day, but it's not going to change the quality of education at these schools. And while someone might get a decent education in Mt. Airy despite all of those factors, it's probable that it won't be a GREAT education from k - 12.
You really don't have a grasp of what a well-rounded education entails or takes to make happen. They need to do far more then just be able to read and do basic math. Clearly your education was not exactly up to par.
By the way, Philadelphia is a school-choice city, evidenced by the fact that around 30% of public school students in the city attend public charters. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good 'ole red faced rant.
The scholastic requirement for charter was quickly scraped as racist
Charter was a good idea but standards
were quickly mugged-
Yes 30% get a chance -how about the 70% trapped -where shakedown, mugging and assault are part of their diversity/cultural training? A well rounded education?
Children deserve better
A poor system -Too many are earning a good living at the expense of our children
Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 09-11-2018 at 07:59 AM..
You really don't have a grasp of what a well-rounded education entails or takes to make happen. They need to do far more then just be able to read and do basic math. Clearly your education was not exactly up to par.
By the way, Philadelphia is a school-choice city, evidenced by the fact that around 30% of public school students in the city attend public charters. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good 'ole red faced rant.
Take note that you are responding to someone in "southern California" . Who knows who they really are and why they saw fit to comment on a philly board?
I think it's important to have schools reflect the community they serve, and even more so to have a school to attend in your community. I went to my local Catholic grade school in East Mt. Airy (and public school for Kindergarten) that was a model for diversity when my older brothers and sisters attended-and for many years before that. By the time I was in the 6th-8th Grade and my younger siblings were enrolled we were nearly the only white kids in the school. Today it seems to be doing well but it is not diverse like the neighborhood it is in should reflect. My parents always thought diversity was very important in a community, and we all have attended city camps, programs and schools being the only white kids. But my parents also both worked multiple jobs and sacrificed so much to send all their kids to expensive private "college prep" high schools they could not afford and were mostly white. I had trouble adjusting my first two years in High School but eventually found my place in the smaller group of city kids there-mostly black but some white-but it is a difficult question on education and what is "the best" for a child. I am appreciative to have experienced both my Grade school and High School, and if I do have children I will most likely send them to a school in my neighborhood/community, and do most the education and raising at home. I will be more lenient than my parents were on High School and listen to my kids on where they want to go.
The scholastic requirement for charter was quickly scraped as racist
Charter was a good idea but standards
were quickly mugged-
Yes 30% get a chance -how about the 70% trapped -where shakedown, mugging and assault are part of their diversity/cultural training? A well rounded education?
Children deserve better
A poor system -Too many are earning a good living at the expense of our children
You can't even scrape together a coherent sentence. Your opinion is irrelevant.
I'm sure there are plenty of parents who are scared of enrolling their children in black majority schools, but it's not everyone. My ex-wife was black and her family was black as well. No concerns from my end. I don't really care what color or ethnicity someone is. They're either raised well with a good family or they're not.
The schools in Mt. Airy, despite talking to parents, have a lot of problems. I know this because the scores tell me so, I talk to parents in the neighborhood, and in part, because they have the same resource/teacher issues that many other Philadelphia public schools have. We can talk about race all day, but it's not going to change the quality of education at these schools. And while someone might get a decent education in Mt. Airy despite all of those factors, it's probable that it won't be a GREAT education from k - 12.
This is a legit subject to raise, and it's one of the things those "Friends of" groups form to address.
Now, the resource issues are simple lack thereof, but the teacher issues may vary. In some cases, they may arise from a dedicated but overstretched/overtaxed teaching staff. In others, from teachers who really don't GAF.
The head of (I think it was) the Philadelphia School Partnership, which provides financial assistance to improve the performance of public (district-run and charter) and private schools in the city and information for parents in the city who are shopping for a school, shared this anecdote at a Phillymag "ThinkFest" a few years back.
Mastery Charter Schools had just taken over operation of Francis Pastorius Elementary School, which is located in the next block east from my Germantown home. The new administrators had called a meeting with school parents to discuss what changes they could expect to see at the school.
One of the parents asked, "What about the teachers? Will they be staying?"
The administrator replied, "We met with each teacher and offered them the option of staying on at our school. However, most of them opted to leave."
At this point, the guy said, the room broke out in applause.
But back to the issue of a decent education vs. a great one.
I guess it may boil down to what values you want to emphasize and what expectations you have for your children.
As I and one other person have implied and a third stated explicitly, some parents may feel strongly enough that they want their children to be exposed to a wider cross-section of children that they will trade off the best possible education for one that will still prepare their kids for college. Since a school's average test scores have no bearing on how any one student will perform on a test, their children might excel anyway provided an environment where they can learn. I still don't consider making such a choice a sign of bad parenting any more than a parent telling their kids to "go out and play" without structure or supervision would be (it's how we were raised, wasn't it?).
If the problem has anything to do with lack of resources, then the solution to that part of it is more resources. Perhaps you might not send your kids to the school, but you might join its Friends group.
FKD19124: I'm saddened but not surprised to hear that. Maybe we need classes for the parents that will explain to them what school is all about and how they can support their kids.
The scholastic requirement for charter was quickly scraped as racist
Charter was a good idea but standards
were quickly mugged-
Yes 30% get a chance -how about the 70% trapped -where shakedown, mugging and assault are part of their diversity/cultural training? A well rounded education?
Children deserve better
A poor system -Too many are earning a good living at the expense of our children
Have you actually lived here?
I don't recognize our charter schools in those figures.
I refuse to accept the idea that for a school to be GOOD, there have to be white students attending. Why can't there be a black good public schools the way we have non-diverse good schools in the suburbs.
One theme I keep getting from your arguments is that the improvement of public city schools is hinged on increasing the proportion of white students.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl
Thanks for the backup.
My own upbringing, which I just described above, makes me a convinced and committed integrationist. It's hard for people like me out there, what with white resistance on the one side and black separatism on the other, but truth to tell, the black separatism is more a reaction to the white resistance than it is any deep-seated social or cultural preference - survey after survey has shown that most African-Americans would rather their children attend integrated schools, and by "integrated" they mean something close to a 50-50 black/white mix. (The 40/30/20/10 Hispanic/black/white/Asian ratio at Andrew Jackson would probably satisfy a lot of black parents too. And has anyone asked the parents of those 20 percent how they feel about the school? I'll bet they give answers more like the one the white Jackson parent I knew did than the ones I'm hearing here.)
And even as whites make their way towards becoming a plurality in this country, it doesn't take that many of them to produce 50/50 black/white mixes, as African-Americans account for only 12 percent of the population. We can't find that many non-scared whites out there?
An interesting fact in light of all this: Those women told me that Lingelbach was integrated when it opened in 1957. Given its location - its catchment probably extends into integrated-and-we're-gonna-keep-it-that-way, thankyouverymuch Mt. Airy - this makes sense. And it raises the relevant question: What happened that caused that to change? White flight from that part of Germantown? (Not all Germantown's whites fled - they account for about 15 percent of its population today, a rather high number for a generally low-income Philadelphia neighborhood - but I'm sure some did in the better-off quadrant too.) A decline in the level of order and discipline in the school? (The testimony of these two suggests to me that this has been fixed if this was a cause.) Or was it just that white resistance to being in a minority? (I am sure that the number of black students rose as whites did leave the catchment.)
Huckleberry3911948: Yes, those are the fundamental things that need to happen. But they're not all that should happen. Been there myself, did that myself, know the benefits of going beyond the basics.
I refuse to accept the idea that for a school to be GOOD, there have to be white students attending. Why can't there be a black good public schools the way we have non-diverse good schools in the suburbs.
One theme I keep getting from your arguments is that the improvement of public city schools is hinged on increasing the proportion of white students.
No, it really doesn't, and I think that's a reasonable question to ask, but find me one.
I could throw back at you an old African-American saying: "The white man's ice is colder and his sugar is sweeter." I have neither the time nor the inclination right now to write the dissertation on all the ways our societal structure, public policies and various customs have to date made it necessary to bring white people in because for too long, they were set up to keep black people away from all the real benefits, and there is a sense in which this is dismissing African-Americans' ability to construct schools that excel (actually, they have, but they're public charters. I'm thinking in particular of the KIPP [Knowledge is Power Principle] schools in New York and elsewhere; there are at least two in Philadelphia I'm aware of).
But remember, I'm an integrationist, as are many blacks. You can't have integration sitting off by yourself. And there is a part of me that says about this, "You all [whites collectively] made this mess. It's your responsibility to pitch in on cleaning it up."
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I've worked in a public charter in a very rough section of West Philly, a very expensive private school in New Jersey, and now a high quality public charter back in the city. Parents are the single biggest factors in educational success at any level. If they aren't given stability and support at home, a huge chunk of the battle has already been lost. I've seen it play out time and time again over my 5 years teaching.
