"The public schools aren't as bad as everyone says they are." (Philadelphia: renting, house)

[MarketStEl]

The title of this thread is the label I attach to a mental file I keep on Philadelphia's public schools and how they perform for actual parents.

The number of files in this folder are small, but they are increasing in number. I just got two more files added to the folder today.

Most of the files consist of reports from parents (white) about their satisfaction with the public schools their children attend.

These children attend schools that score poorly on the two most widely consulted comprehensive school rating sites, GreatSchools.org and Niche.com. Yet the parents in question report that they are pleased with the education their children are receiving - and some of them are taking active roles in supporting the staff and administration of the schools their children attend through both official parent-teacher groups (known in Philadelphia as "Home and School Associations"; elsewhere, they're known as "Parent-Teacher Associations" or "PTAs") and newer support groups that non-parents may also join known as "Friends" groups.

One of the first entries in my file came from a woman I've become friends with who had a daughter enrolled in Andrew Jackson Elementary School in Passyunk Square (GreatSchools.org ratings: Overall, 4; Test scores, 3; Student progress, 8; Overall equity: 2; test scores for low-income students: 4. Niche.com grades: Overall, C-; Academics, C-; Teachers, C; Diversity, A+). She stated to me that she was very pleased with how her daughter was doing at Jackson and thought the school had a great faculty. Her daughter no longer goes there because she relocated to Pitman, N.J., not because of the schools (three of the district's five schools get grades and scores similar to Jackson's) but because she could get a large house with a yard at reasonable cost.

Another comes not from personal contact, but from what I see from reports. It concerns Chester A. Arthur in Graduate Hospital (GreatSchools.org ratings: Overall, 3; Test scores, 2; Student progress; 7; Overall equity; 2; test scores for low-income students: 2. Niche.com grades: Overall, C-; Academics, C-; Teachers, C; Diversity, B+). This school is much less diverse than Jackson, where Hispanics account for nearly 40 percent of the student body, non-Hispanic blacks 24 and non-Hispanic whites 16; Arthur is nearly 80 percent black and 99 percent low-income. Yet its Friends group is one of the largest and most successful in the city, and if you look at the images on the FoCA website, you would get the impression that there are more white kids at the school than the stats indicate. This raises a question I've raised elsewhere, one I consider increasingly salient.

The files I added today come from two Germantown families, each of which has two children; their older sons are currently enrolled at Anna L. Lingelbach in Germantown's more affluent northwest corner (GreatSchools.org ratings: Overall, 2; Test scores, 2; Student progress; 4; Overall equity; 2; test scores for low-income students: 2. Niche.com grades: Overall, C-; academics, C-; teachers, C; diversity, B+). Both of them say their children are doing very well there, and they have joined the school's (smaller and less well-endowed) Friends group.

One of the things one of them told me about the school surprised me: It was integrated when it opened in the mid-1950s. Perhaps not surprising for Germantown, but certainly surprising for Philadelphia schools as a whole at the time. These two, along with a number of other similarly inclined parents in Northwest Philly, are doing their best to make it integrated again.

Which brings me to one of my growing areas of concern: Are white parents, by insisting on only "great schools" for their kids, actually robbing them of an opportunity to learn things of equal or greater value than what the test scores measure? That Lingelbach parent I spoke with at church today would probably agree: "For white parents, it's 'You can't send your children there,'" she said to me. "For black parents, they're trying to get their kids into the school from outside its catchment because it's so good." Small class sizes and an attentive faculty are the reasons she gave for the high interest among black parents.

And it's not like the black parents have no other options at all. They could send their children to one of the several schools operated by Mastery Charter Schools in Germantown, to Wissahickon Charter School, or to the neighborhood's Catholic school.

There's an organization called IntegratedSchools.org, based in Los Angeles. Its aim is to get white families to make a conscious choice to send their children to schools where they are likely to be in the minority. Which, as the explanation of their reason for being states, means they will be sending them to "bad" schools.

I've heard it said in the past that much of the differences in student achievement can be attributed to factors outside the school. These parents and their testimony seem to me to back that up, and they also suggest to me that good parents and good teachers can make a "bad" school good if only the parents will let them by sending their kids there.

Are the risks really so great that they outweigh the potential benefits? I think this is another of those areas where people let fear govern their decisions too much. Do you agree? Do you think I'm making too much of that issue (fear as overblown)? Might we see better schools in the city simply by the act of integrating them more?

[MB1562]

As a teacher I can tell you: educated, involved parents and a stable home life are just as important, if not moreso, then the teacher and "quality" of the school.

[Gerania]

There's no date on this article, but the whole situation sounds pretty grim.

A school with a $160 budget? - Philly

[BK_PHL_DEL]

This is a good and relevant piece I read last week:

How Well-Intentioned White Families Can Perpetuate Racism

[NewtownBucks]

This is a very sounds argument until you have kids (regardless of race) and someone is telling you to send them to low rated schools when you have the resources to avoid it. No one is going to do that.

[AJNEOA]

The opinions of parents aren't necessarily the tell-tale sign of reality. Parents that are happy with a school may have just had worse experiences than the current school. I firmly agree with MB1562 that the parents are just as important, if not more important, than the teachers/curriculum.

The considerations that I'm currently exploring are as follows:

1. Curriculum: At what level will my child(ren) be taught and how will their knowledge and hard work line up to future schools (high, college, post-grad)? Parents saying a school is better than a Niche or Great Schools rating likely has no bearing on how far behind their child may be to his/her peers when moving up/on.

2. Peers: Who are my child's peers? Tbh, I don't want my kid hanging around others I see (e.g. kids riding down the middle of a busy street popping wheelies on their bikes and running red lights). I know as a parent, there are limits on my control and a big part of it is how well behaved, respectful, etc. student peers are.

3. Teachers: How well can teachers really perform in the classroom if #2 is an issue? Again, when I see poorly behaved children (4th graders swearing), that tells me that even if the teachers care, the curriculum suffers. School personnel turnover is an issue in most cases that I'm reading about as well. Again, some of the parents you talk to may like the school, but what are their expectations? What are their considerations? How do they see the future for their children? Expectations are a huge part of that discussion. A teach can care, but that doesn't make the outcome good inherently.

4. School safety: With missing nurses, missing counselors, limited resources, toxic buildings, etc., how can a child feel secure and fulfilled in and outside of the classroom? I know Philly is working on fixing the toxic building situation (lead paint falling from ceilings, gas leaks, etc.), but it seems like there are always cuts. Again, I know a lot is going on to fix the funding problem, and maybe in a few years, there will be a lot less in the way of these issues. However, this is a telling sign.

I get that to fix a school, people have to stay and invest. However, to do that, it requires the school to be at a certain level. To simplify the consideration, if Great Schools rates a school at a 2 or 3 and in three years, it's still a 2 or 3, I'm not going to "invest", because I'll likely just be giving my kid a sub-par education. Now, if it's a 2 or 3 and in three years, it's a 4 or 5, that may make sense. That may be selfish, but I'm not going to risk my child's future.

[kyb01]

Sandy, is there any chance you could talk to any parents in Fairmount/Spring Garden? As I've said there are LOTS of pre-school children(lots of infants!)living there. Considering this is a majority white area I wonder what their feelings really are about public schools in particular Bache-Martin.

[Wells5]

Originally Posted by MB1562

As a teacher I can tell you: educated, involved parents and a stable home life are just as important, if not moreso, then the teacher and "quality" of the school.

Hey teach: doesn't u no the diff between "then" and "than?"

[Angus215]

It's sad to see the catastrophic effect that well-intentioned, "social engineering" experiments have had on cities across the nation, in the name of "desegregation". If you could start over and say that everyone's kids would go to school with other kids in their own local neighborhood, then yes, you would suddenly find that there were good inner-city public schools in some areas, and poor schools in other areas.

As others have said, this has more to do with parents and upbringing than anything else (including race). But the reality is that parenting and home environment are very different, on average, in relatively more affluent areas than they are in relatively poor areas. Forcing everyone together brings schools down to the lowest common denominator, and pushes other out. That is exactly what happened, and has led to the current situation. You can hypothesis all you want, but it's not going to change anytime in the foreseeable future, and I certainly wouldn't want my own children to be part of the next failed social experiment.

[MB1562]

Originally Posted by Wells5

Hey teach: doesn't u no the diff between "then" and "than?"

That is a mistake I still make often....

Some bad habits stick around.