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View Poll Results: Should Philly look to add a third subway line?
Yes, it would be a good long-term goal 28 53.85%
Yes, get on it right away 16 30.77%
No, it's not necessary 3 5.77%
No, it's not feasible 3 5.77%
Wouldn't really matter either way 2 3.85%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-17-2018, 11:01 AM
 
Location: In the heights
24,527 posts, read 25,339,178 times
Reputation: 13077

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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
If you think that Trenton pays attention to South Jersey for anything other than to transfer tax money to North Jersey, you are mistaken.

Trenton nixed the other 2 proposed lines in the 70s. Before PATCO, I rode Red Arrow buses to get into Philadelphia.

There were many good, valid reasons why the southern counties tried to separate & form a separate state in 1980. Since then, Trenton occasionally throws South Jersey residents a bone, to keep peace.

Crooks from both states skimmed money from the bridge toll money, to pay for PATCO subsidies & bridge maintenance, to hand out to friends. The public uproar, when this became public, resulted in specific laws dictating how those funds were to be handled.

If someone from South Jersey is headed for 30th St Station, they transfer at 8th & Market. There's no need for a 2nd, redundant, line to get there.
No, I don't think Trenton pays much attention to South Jersey nor have I said anything of the sort. I am well aware that South Jersey gets scant attention and mentioned as much in the post of mine you're quoting. That's part of why I think it might make sense to look at how PATCO operates and to try to better integrate the system with SEPTA as well as extend it on the Philadelphia side. It means that Philadelphia has more skin in the game when it comes to keeping things in a state of good repair and additional stations in Philadelphia would benefit not just Philadelphians, but people in South Jersey trying to get to other parts of Philadelphia as well as potentially bring reverse commuters into South Jersey. As there is a very strong peak direction for PATCO, this effectively takes nothing away from current PATCO commuters but add new stops further into Philadelphia and a potential new funding source/better farebox recovery ratio for the system. That larger potential rider catchment also then makes a better argument for when and if the system tries to get additional federal funding for extensions on either side of the Delaware.

I'm not calling for the second line to get to 30th Street Station--I said that it should turn northwards. Southwards might make sense as well as an alternative, but northwards seems more sensible. I don't think continuing further west to mimic the Market-Frankford Line will get much buy in because there's already a rail line going there. Doing a western extension basically just doubles up on that and is useless in terms of getting buy-in on the Philadelphia side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
Yes, I'm aware of that, and there's some sort of new arrangement now that both systems use NFC RFID cards for fare payment and station access, isn't there?

Something similar would have to be implemented to allow fare interchangeability between SEPTA and PATCO on the new extended Locust Street stations.
Yes, the NFC payment media means that boardings can potentially be better tracked and a reasonable fare-sharing arrangement can be better made.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 10-17-2018 at 11:36 AM..
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
1,434 posts, read 1,596,501 times
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I think as time goes on, the need for a third rail will become apparent enough that it cannot be ignored.
As I just read the recent plan by CONNECT, SEPTA does want to add more light rail lines which I think would greatly help.

In terms of transit on the Northeast BLVD, this is something that would be needed especially.
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Old 11-26-2018, 03:48 PM
 
Location: The Left Toast
1,231 posts, read 1,520,201 times
Reputation: 905
Philly transit has great bones but could offer better service, one expert says
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
1,434 posts, read 1,596,501 times
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Take a look at this map, this was what envisioned for the city in terms of Rapid Transit.
Absolutely astounding.
The Chestnut Street Subway is a highlight, designed to remove congestion on the Market Street Line and make local stops for the gap not served , presently 30th-15th.
The Darby Line mirrors the route of the woodland avenue trolley in it's route to Darby. I like the idea.

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Old 12-11-2018, 05:22 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
6,213 posts, read 3,048,381 times
Reputation: 3932
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris123678 View Post
Take a look at this map, this was what envisioned for the city in terms of Rapid Transit.
Absolutely astounding.
The Chestnut Street Subway is a highlight, designed to remove congestion on the Market Street Line and make local stops for the gap not served , presently 30th-15th.
The Darby Line mirrors the route of the woodland avenue trolley in it's route to Darby. I like the idea.
It's a shame the very next mayor of Philadelphia sacked A. Merritt Taylor the following year.

His successor also wrote a report blasting some of the routes Taylor proposed, especially how Parkway and Broad Street trains would conflict with each other between the planned Chestnut-Walnut station and the one at City Hall (those two stations would have been too close together, I agree).
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:24 AM
 
10,273 posts, read 5,934,396 times
Reputation: 3628
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris123678 View Post
Take a look at this map, this was what envisioned for the city in terms of Rapid Transit.
Absolutely astounding.
The Chestnut Street Subway is a highlight, designed to remove congestion on the Market Street Line and make local stops for the gap not served , presently 30th-15th.
The Darby Line mirrors the route of the woodland avenue trolley in it's route to Darby. I like the idea.
Is this real or was it someone's transit fiction?
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Old 12-11-2018, 10:42 AM
 
39 posts, read 20,121 times
Reputation: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
Is this real or was it someone's transit fiction?
It is based on the 1913 plan by A Merritt Taylor.
In a way it is a transit fiction, but a transit fiction developed by Philadelphia’s first director of City Transit. As you can see the BSL and the rest of the MFL was created as outlined on this map.

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Old 12-11-2018, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pa
1,434 posts, read 1,596,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
It's a shame the very next mayor of Philadelphia sacked A. Merritt Taylor the following year.

His successor also wrote a report blasting some of the routes Taylor proposed, especially how Parkway and Broad Street trains would conflict with each other between the planned Chestnut-Walnut station and the one at City Hall (those two stations would have been too close together, I agree).

There's quite a few stations that I find too close together during the map. Wonder why Taylor like having stations 3-4 blocks apart as opposed to longer gaps, 6-8?
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,520 posts, read 10,848,867 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frbrown View Post
It is based on the 1913 plan by A Merritt Taylor.
In a way it is a transit fiction, but a transit fiction developed by Philadelphia’s first director of City Transit. As you can see the BSL and the rest of the MFL was created as outlined on this map.
As great as the master plan for rapid transit was, it would've inevitable led to the death of regional rail in the city of Philadelphia. So I guess there are pros and cons to every scenario.

Last edited by gwillyfromphilly; 12-11-2018 at 07:01 PM..
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Old 12-11-2018, 11:18 PM
 
Location: North Jackson
2,076 posts, read 3,334,972 times
Reputation: 2779
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
As great as the master plan for rapid transit was, it would've inevitable led to the death of regional rail in the city of Philadelphia. So I guess there are pros and cons to every scenario.
And that would have been a good thing, so that regional rail would have focused on the suburbs. Regional rail shouldn't be the main or only solution for travel to Chestnut Hill, the airport, and the like. We should have been more like Chicago.
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