Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Meanwhile, in the real world, when people come onto City Data and talk about "good schools," and in general whenever people get together and talk about "wanting good public schools," they only care about two things: test scores and Great Schools rankings.
These people are going to see that your Mount Airy house is zoned for an elementary school with a Great Schools score of 3, and the high school has a score of all of 1. Whut?
Then John and Jane Doe, or John and Jane Gupta or John and Jane Chin will see that Conestoga High School is scored 9. Problem solved and sorted out. Honey, call the realtors. Main Line, here we come.
I'm very aware of that.
I'm also aware I'm shouting into the wind.
Change has to start somewhere, doesn't it?
Follow that logic and Anuj Gupta shouldn't have taken Realtors by the hand and shown them the insides of Mt. Airy's public grade schools at all. It would have been totally futile, right?
The only people impressed are hippy-dippy white chicks who proudly proclaim their wokeness with Hate has no Home here posters in their windows and think it's the height of sophistication to get something utterly random tattooed on their arm, like a coffee cup or carrot, because somehow it's "meaningful."
One, I see plenty of Hate Has No Home Here signs in front of houses touting private-school open houses; the attitude you caricature with that is general across Mt. Airy;
two, maybe some of them, but that sure doesn't sound or look like the two women who collared me at First Presbyterian Germantown. Again, liberalism is general across the neighborhood, and it's actually very light on hipsters (they're the ones who go get tats).
What I'm asking people to do is think. Most of us would rather not do that if we can avoid doing so at all.
One, I see plenty of Hate Has No Home Here signs in front of houses touting private-school open houses; the attitude you caricature with that is general across Mt. Airy;
two, maybe some of them, but that sure doesn't sound or look like the two women who collared me at First Presbyterian Germantown. Again, liberalism is general across the neighborhood, and it's actually very light on hipsters (they're the ones who go get tats).
What I'm asking people to do is think. Most of us would rather not do that if we can avoid doing so at all.
Some of you need to stop being so defensive about Mount Airy. It's a nice neighborhood - at least parts of it is (others definitely are not nice, although you'll probably still tell me all about the warm and neighborly and down at earth people who live in the crappy parts).
Mount Airy is what it is. I do like the liberalism of it even if I make fun of some of the more starry-eyed aspects of it. I know there's a diverse crowd of all types and that's just fine and dandy.
But I also know Mount A is not that special nor great in the eyes of many prospective buyers. Many people, especially the kind of people who specifically talk about "good public schools" are not going to "think" about it the way you are asking them to think about it. It's pointless - and they do have valid reasons.
Schools are bad. Scores are low. Demographics are not ideal. Some of may be overlapping with racism, much of it has to do with general concerns of going to school with many low income students, who tend to have problematic needs and disruptive behavior in classroom settings, or lack of resources. So they are not going to look into Mount Airy when they can move straight to Radnor or Malvern or Blue Bell or Swarthmore or Wyndmoor or a bunch of other suburbs where schools are excellent, demographics are comfortable, and on top of it, township services are excellent and crime stats are low.
Buying in Mount Airy is a commitment in a way buying in Malvern or Radnor is not, it's an investment in faith to some degree. And most people sensibly conclude it's not worth the investment and schools are a major part of it. Heck, even in Mount Airy it's pretty clear many if not most of the better off residents are committed to the very expensive private school route, and that is a major turnoff for many prospective buyers who don't see the point of shelling out mega bucks for a private school when they can just go to Malvern.
Some of you need to stop being so defensive about Mount Airy. It's a nice neighborhood - at least parts of it is (others definitely are not nice, although you'll probably still tell me all about the warm and neighborly and down at earth people who live in the crappy parts).
Mount Airy is what it is. I do like the liberalism of it even if I make fun of some of the more starry-eyed aspects of it. I know there's a diverse crowd of all types and that's just fine and dandy.
But I also know Mount A is not that special nor great in the eyes of many prospective buyers. Many people, especially the kind of people who specifically talk about "good public schools" are not going to "think" about it the way you are asking them to think about it. It's pointless - and they do have valid reasons.
Schools are bad. Scores are low. Demographics are not ideal. Some of may be overlapping with racism, much of it has to do with general concerns of going to school with many low income students, who tend to have problematic needs and disruptive behavior in classroom settings, or lack of resources. So they are not going to look into Mount Airy when they can move straight to Radnor or Malvern or Blue Bell or Swarthmore or Wyndmoor or a bunch of other suburbs where schools are excellent, demographics are comfortable, and on top of it, township services are excellent and crime stats are low.
Buying in Mount Airy is a commitment in a way buying in Malvern or Radnor is not, it's an investment in faith to some degree. And most people sensibly conclude it's not worth the investment and schools are a major part of it. Heck, even in Mount Airy it's pretty clear many if not most of the better off residents are committed to the very expensive private school route, and that is a major turnoff for many prospective buyers who don't see the point of shelling out mega bucks for a private school when they can just go to Malvern.
It's our right, as actual Philadelphians, to be defensive about Mt Airy. It's a neighborhood that some of us cherish. Btw, moving to the Philadelphia area does not make you a Philadelphian.
And it is primarily about underlying racism and wanting "comfortable demographics" but also about class issues as you point out.
Personally I see no solution to it.
MarketStEl still has hope about it perhaps because he was brought up in the midwest where, I guess, optimism is a virtue.
Also I don't see having volunteer fire companies, for example, as equalling excellent twp services.
I grew up in the suburbs and lived for a long time in them so don't come back "you know nothing about the burbs".
Some of you need to stop being so defensive about Mount Airy. It's a nice neighborhood - at least parts of it is (others definitely are not nice, although you'll probably still tell me all about the warm and neighborly and down at earth people who live in the crappy parts).
Mount Airy is what it is. I do like the liberalism of it even if I make fun of some of the more starry-eyed aspects of it. I know there's a diverse crowd of all types and that's just fine and dandy.
But I also know Mount A is not that special nor great in the eyes of many prospective buyers. Many people, especially the kind of people who specifically talk about "good public schools" are not going to "think" about it the way you are asking them to think about it. It's pointless - and they do have valid reasons.
Schools are bad. Scores are low. Demographics are not ideal. Some of may be overlapping with racism, much of it has to do with general concerns of going to school with many low income students, who tend to have problematic needs and disruptive behavior in classroom settings, or lack of resources. So they are not going to look into Mount Airy when they can move straight to Radnor or Malvern or Blue Bell or Swarthmore or Wyndmoor or a bunch of other suburbs where schools are excellent, demographics are comfortable, and on top of it, township services are excellent and crime stats are low.
Buying in Mount Airy is a commitment in a way buying in Malvern or Radnor is not, it's an investment in faith to some degree. And most people sensibly conclude it's not worth the investment and schools are a major part of it. Heck, even in Mount Airy it's pretty clear many if not most of the better off residents are committed to the very expensive private school route, and that is a major turnoff for many prospective buyers who don't see the point of shelling out mega bucks for a private school when they can just go to Malvern.
I live on a crappier block than any you will find in Mt. Airy in East Germantown. When I attended Philadelphia2035 Upper Northwest District Plan charettes two years ago, the intersection where I catch the buses that take me to the subway to work was identified by all involved, including me, as the single greatest challenge this part of the city faces.
Of the 12 murders that took place in East Germantown in the preceding two years, three occurred at opposite ends of my block. I slept through a fourth that took place across the street from me in the wee smalls two months ago. (I'm going to guess that a gun wasn't involved in the killing.)
Yet I invite friends to visit all the time, black and white alike. Nothing untoward has happened to any of them save for one friend who went out looking to score some weed but found something worse instead and my boyfriend, who rode his bike up here one Sunday, locked it to the wooden side railing of my front porch and left it there; it remained there until Thursday, when someone swiped it and one of the railing slats while I was at the office.
And this evening, my neighbor three doors down offered me a ride home from the supermarket (a three-block walk). When I told him I was waiting for a friend, he offered to take my bags home and deposit them on the porch. That's where I found them when I got home 15 minutes later.
Yet I live on a bad block in a bad part of a poor neighborhood. Granted, I would have lived elsewhere in this neighborhood had the rent on this apartment not been very attractive. But it hasn't turned out too bad for me. (And four blocks from me is a pocket of huge free-standing Victorians and Colonials that is home to an affluent, largely African-American population.
If I sound like something of a snob for drawing this parallel, so be it. I wouldn't recommend my block and general vicinity to anyone not looking for a cheap apartment. But I wouldn't actively steer anyone away, either. I'd even show them around.
Given our history and our - yes - prejudices, integration of any kind - racial, socioeconomic, you name it - is not easy. But I think it pays off in ways those parents will never know.
Schools are bad. Scores are low. Demographics are not ideal. Some of may be overlapping with racism, much of it has to do with general concerns of going to school with many low income students, who tend to have problematic needs and disruptive behavior in classroom settings, or lack of resources. So they are not going to look into Mount Airy when they can move straight to Radnor or Malvern or Blue Bell or Swarthmore or Wyndmoor or a bunch of other suburbs where schools are excellent, demographics are comfortable, and on top of it, township services are excellent and crime stats are low.
Buying in Mount Airy is a commitment in a way buying in Malvern or Radnor is not, it's an investment in faith to some degree. And most people sensibly conclude it's not worth the investment and schools are a major part of it. Heck, even in Mount Airy it's pretty clear many if not most of the better off residents are committed to the very expensive private school route, and that is a major turnoff for many prospective buyers who don't see the point of shelling out mega bucks for a private school when they can just go to Malvern.
I forgot to mention:
Some of the language used here smacks of prejudice. "Comfortable" demographics? "Sensibly" conclude?
Some of it is "overlapping with racism" IMO. (And it is possible to have racism without racists. I'm sure that these people individually do their best to treat others equally. But most of us do have unconscious prejudices that inform our attitudes and behavior.)
There's nothing special about being a Philadelphian. It's just another meaningless -ism label, it does not confer you any special privilages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01
It's our right, as actual Philadelphians, to be defensive about Mt Airy. It's a neighborhood that some of us cherish. Btw, moving to the Philadelphia area does not make you a Philadelphian.
I live on a crappier block than any you will find in Mt. Airy in East Germantown. When I attended Philadelphia2035 Upper Northwest District Plan charettes two years ago, the intersection where I catch the buses that take me to the subway to work was identified by all involved, including me, as the single greatest challenge this part of the city faces.
Of the 12 murders that took place in East Germantown in the preceding two years, three occurred at opposite ends of my block. I slept through a fourth that took place across the street from me in the wee smalls two months ago. (I'm going to guess that a gun wasn't involved in the killing.)
Yet I invite friends to visit all the time, black and white alike. Nothing untoward has happened to any of them save for one friend who went out looking to score some weed but found something worse instead and my boyfriend, who rode his bike up here one Sunday, locked it to the wooden side railing of my front porch and left it there; it remained there until Thursday, when someone swiped it and one of the railing slats while I was at the office.
And this evening, my neighbor three doors down offered me a ride home from the supermarket (a three-block walk). When I told him I was waiting for a friend, he offered to take my bags home and deposit them on the porch. That's where I found them when I got home 15 minutes later.
Yet I live on a bad block in a bad part of a poor neighborhood. Granted, I would have lived elsewhere in this neighborhood had the rent on this apartment not been very attractive. But it hasn't turned out too bad for me. (And four blocks from me is a pocket of huge free-standing Victorians and Colonials that is home to an affluent, largely African-American population.
If I sound like something of a snob for drawing this parallel, so be it. I wouldn't recommend my block and general vicinity to anyone not looking for a cheap apartment. But I wouldn't actively steer anyone away, either. I'd even show them around.
Given our history and our - yes - prejudices, integration of any kind - racial, socioeconomic, you name it - is not easy. But I think it pays off in ways those parents will never know.
Well, you're not exactly making your adopted neighborhood sound very enticing. Multiple murders, muggings, and porch theft in a neighborhood extremely removed from the city proper (but still levied wage tax) with poor schools and high levels of poverty. Sign me up. LOL...
Well, you're not exactly making your adopted neighborhood sound very enticing. Multiple murders, muggings, and porch theft in a neighborhood extremely removed from the city proper (but still levied wage tax) with poor schools and high levels of poverty. Sign me up. LOL...
Almost certain this level of crime is not going on in the very immediate vicinity where my sister lives in W. Phila. or I would have heard about it. Well, there are homeowners and some who were there when our grandparents were there into the early 80s.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
