How much are South Jersey suburbs part of Philly culture? (Philadelphia: apartment, crime rates)

[Gerania]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

MarketStEl, would you like to explain to him where the Welsh Tract was? It seems pretty obvious to me that he thinks it was in South Jersey. I'm getting fed up, so would prefer to limit anything else that I say to him tonight. You have a way with words.

He does have a way with words. After all, that buys his bread and butters it.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

MarketStEl, would you like to explain to him where the Welsh Tract was? It seems pretty obvious to me that he thinks it was in South Jersey. I'm getting fed up, so would prefer to limit anything else that I say to him tonight. You have a way with words.

It's my understanding that the Welsh Tract, or "Welsh Barony," is in Philadelphia's western suburbs in Pennsylvania, stretching through Montgomery, Chester and Delaware counties. This is where you will find most of the local place names of Welsh origin, like Bryn Mawr, Llanerch, Tredyffrin and Gwynedd. (I understand that while it sounds like Welsh, "Gladwyne" is made up.)

The Wikipedia article on the Welsh Tract states that there's a second one straddling the Delaware-Maryland border in northern New Castle and Cecil counties.

If one of these exists in New Jersey - which was not granted to William Penn - I'd be curious to know about it. There are certainly no Welsh-sounding place names there that I know of.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

It's my understanding that the Welsh Tract, or "Welsh Barony," is in Philadelphia's western suburbs in Pennsylvania, stretching through Montgomery, Chester and Delaware counties. This is where you will find most of the local place names of Welsh origin, like Bryn Mawr, Llanerch, Tredyffrin and Gwynedd. (I understand that while it sounds like Welsh, "Gladwyne" is made up.)

The Wikipedia article on the Welsh Tract states that there's a second one straddling the Delaware-Maryland border in northern New Castle and Cecil counties.

If one of these exists in New Jersey - which was not granted to William Penn - I'd be curious to know about it. There are certainly no Welsh-sounding place names there that I know of.

Thanks. I appreciate it.

No, there wasn't a Welsh Tract in South Jersey. There was a significant number of Baptists in the Welsh Tract, however.

I made no negative or derogatory comments about Pennsylvania. I just don't do that. There's no reason for anyone to make derogatory comments about South Jersey or Delaware for that matter, whether the question is asked on this board or one of the other 2.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by Gerania

Shall we sing Men of Harlech and reminisce about the tea burning?

It seems Southern New Jersey has become Philadelphia's red-headed stepchild. At least to some. The Philadelphia Botanical Club likes it well enough. They go there every year.

OP, Philadelphian's don't have a problem with their neighbors to the south. They know that thousands cross the bridges daily to work there, and that they visit often. The suburbanites spend quite a bit there, too. My out-of-town relatives all got the grand Philly tour, but I also took them to Haddonfield, Batsto, and the Tuckerton Seaport & Baymen's Museum.

I'll never be able to figure out why people say that they're rude. No one there has ever been rude to me. Maybe I choose the right people to inflict my stupid questions on. I just ended a sentence with the word on.

My best friend in South Jersey is descended from one of the men at the South Jersey tea party. The Battle of Redbank took place on the grounds of a Quaker farmer. The continental army had a Frenchman design Fort Mercer on the land within sight of the Delaware River. This was the 1st such fort to defend Philadelphia. Then they sunk the abattis in the river. Then Fort Mifflin was on the Pennsylvania side. Every October most of South Jersey celebrates the role of South Jersey in the defense of Philadelphia during the Revolutionary War.

Let's see. . .the allegations were no history & isolated. I think that you and I proved that there's plenty of history. My ancestor married both wives in Philadelphia & had all of his children christened in Philadelphia, in the 18th century. Apparently, no one told him that he was isolated. His neighbor was the nephew of the founder of Haddonfield, Elizabeth Haddon. Betsy Ross' uncle ran the Indian King tavern at one point.

Like you, my family traipsed our Midwestern relatives all over Philadelphia, where our family was continually amazed by how polite the city people were.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by rowhomecity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haddonfield,_New_Jersey

Again I have no clue the last time you have been up in this region. I know you do not live here. But even Haddonfield is losing population. Quite significant notation.

As it is one of the anchor towns of SNJ and again I am telling you there is a property tax crisis in SNJ that no one wants to recognize. You do not live here, so naturally your awareness would be low.

But if your #1 town is losing population. I would be concerned SNJ.

I know my family friends from Haddonfield moved out of SNJ and into Southeast Pennsylvania. And will save 300k in property taxes over 10 years.

Huh? Haddonfield is “losing” population because it’s been nearly completely built out since the 1970s, and household sizes have gotten steadily smaller (and continue to shrink). Haddonfield is now in the stage where there will be small fluctuations between census (i.e., a 0.4% increase in 2000 and a 0.7% decrease in 2010) as there is generational turnover, meaning families with children becoming empty nester households, and empty nesters moving out and being replaced by new families with children.

The same thing happens in inner and middle Ring suburbs on the PA side of the river (including in Lower Merion). Yes, property taxes are higher in New Jersey, but what else is new (also, the sky is blue.)?

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by ElijahAstin

Huh? Haddonfield is “losing” population because it’s been nearly completely built out since the 1970s, and household sizes have gotten steadily smaller (and continue to shrink). Haddonfield is now in the stage where there will be small fluctuations between census (i.e., a 0.4% increase in 2000 and a 0.7% decrease in 2010) as there is generational turnover, meaning families with children becoming empty nester households, and empty nesters moving out and being replaced by new families with children.

The same thing happens in inner and middle Ring suburbs on the PA side of the river (including in Lower Merion). Yes, property taxes are higher in New Jersey, but what else is new (also, the sky is blue.)?

Yes, the tax rate is higher in South Jersey. House prices tend to be lower. NJ residents are allowed to deduct the Philadelphia wage tax on their state taxes. Some people come out better in Pennsylvania while others come out better across the river. That's why I don't bring it up. If the poster asks about it, I tell them to work the numbers to see which place is better for them.

[snj90]

Originally Posted by rowhomecity

NJ is a fine place. PA has more achievements. To deny that is silly from other posters who literally are denying historic facts of American history.

Pennsylvania has always been known to be one of the profound states of American history. New Jersey is a suburban state.

Well, yeah; that's kinda obvious. In terms of comparing NJ versus Pennsylvania in the context of the greater metro area, it's no context, because Pennsylvania includes Philadelphia. I think you made a valid point that the Pennsylvania suburbs are more historically connected to Philadelphia. However, contemporarily, the suburbs on either side on the Delaware River are on considerably more equal footing than your rhetoric would suggest. The only state that doesn't get the recognition they deserve is Delaware.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by snj90

Well, yeah; that's kinda obvious. In terms of comparing NJ versus Pennsylvania in the context of the greater metro area, it's no context, because Pennsylvania includes Philadelphia. I think you made a valid point that the Pennsylvania suburbs are more historically connected to Philadelphia. However, contemporarily, the suburbs on either side on the Delaware River are on considerably more equal footing than your rhetoric would suggest. The only state that doesn't get the recognition they deserve is Delaware.

In what regard? Both have their pluses and minuses, but the bulk of the regions modern day economic power is centered in the PA burbs (4 counties). Also development and growth is much stronger in the PA burbs (and Philadelphia)

If you take a scenario like this... If SJ, Philadelphia, or the PA burbs (4 counties) were to disappear and take everything with them, the impact of the PA burbs leaving would be far worse than losing SJ burbs, possibly even worse than losing Philadelphia.

I know a few will take what I said the wrong way, it is not meant to be an attack, but there are clear differences economically, aesthetically, culturally, and development wise if we are doing a 2018 comparison. Both sides of the river have a unique history, with a lot of similarities and differences.

Maybe I took your post the wrong way? To me it seemed that you claimed they are even, when most of us know/ admit they are not, but let me know if I misunderstood.

Also, sorry to not include Delaware. New Castle County has certainly contributed its fair share economically and historically throughout the years.

[loose cannon]

The South Jersey accent in certain areas can be more annoying than a thick South Philly accent. They do their wawas and say yo just like Philly people. Mostly jabronies with a few exceptions.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by loose cannon

The South Jersey accent in certain areas can be more annoying than a thick South Philly accent. They do their wawas and say yo just like Philly people. Mostly jabronies with a few exceptions.

Well, I'm sure your the least annoying person ever. Actually, it's almost guaranteed based on your intellectually rich post above.