Asking Philosophically: Why do people hate SEPTA so much? (York: credit, transfer)

[MB1562]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013

I don't think that NJT can be considered an undisputed king of commuter rail anymore. Sure, their system is much larger than ours, but it is fraught with with operational and personnel issues. Plus, they only really do a good job of covering North and Central Jersey. South Jersey only has the Atlantic City Line (which is out of service until Spring 2019) when it really needs commuter rail lines to Mount Holly/Pemberton, Salem, Vineland/Millville, etc.). Metro-North and the LIRR are good, however.

When I say that we have the best system in the US, I'm talking about its aspects: a one-seat ride across the region, multiple Center City termini, electrified trackage, etc. Our system is more similar to that of several European systems. I never realized how annoying it is to have a non-integrated commuter rail system until I used NJT, Metro-North, the LIRR, and the MBTA.

You seem to ignore the fact that the vast majority of people don't want to or don't need to use Regional Rail to get from suburb to suburb. Most people want to use it to get from suburb to Center City and Center City to suburb. You also ignore the fact that RR frequency isn't all that great, and is downright terrible outside of rush hour. The New Haven Line, Northeast Corridor Line, and some of the busier LIRR lines all run at intervals as small as 6-8 minutes during rush hour, and 30 minutes at most during off-peak times. Nowhere on Regional Rail has that kind of frequency. Also, you'll see those trains run double-deckers 10 cars long, which is a huge capacity. Regional Rail lines run at most, 6-7 single decker cars. That is a huge difference in how many people they can move on a single train headed into or out of the city.

I'm not saying that NJT/LIRR/MetroNorth don't have issues, because they do. I'm also not saying that Regional Rail isn't good, because it is. But anyone who isn't a blatant homer like you knows that NYC commuter rail is far above and beyond what Philadelphia offers. It's a simple fact not up for debate.

[MB1562]

Originally Posted by kyb01

I know what you mean given that I have used transit in Europe. The last time was last April in Paris.

But you know exactly why we don't have what we should have in this country: Republicans and specifically the rural ones who hate cities, hate transit and don't care about what other countries do because, wee!, everyone should drive. So our state legislatures and the US Congress have little interest in what should be obvious. The last election was a good start in changing controlling factions but it's just a start.

Yup. Philadelphia's biggest problem is Pennsylvania itself.

[moneymkt]

The only thing that bothers me about septa is I can't catch a bus from University City or Center City to Northeast.

[DavePa]

Originally Posted by MB1562

Yup. Philadelphia's biggest problem is Pennsylvania itself.

Pennsylvania is not a one big city and metro state. There is another little sibling city called Pittsburgh ... medium metros like Bethlehem/Allentown, Harrisburg/Hershey, Scranton/Wilkes Barre, and other regions too, that get their share or should.

The city could have sought perhaps more Federal matching funds that some other cities got in ..... just before Obama left office. It is building currently LA's new subway addition and improving service and renovating a couple of Chicago L lines to carry more passengers that reached its limit till these changes.

SEPTA has gotten Federal aid too .... but the city might have missed some opportunities also that other cities got from the Obama Administration. The state HAS ADDED BACK SEPTA funds again too. This BLAME of the state ..... is not what it takes to keep stations clean or the city.

It's not all about compared to NYC. Other cities have similar issues too. Sunbelt newer growth cities .... also struggle for their own state's funding. Most times it's the city and counties funds and they settle on cheaper light-rail. Most transit systems seem to operate in the red in this country. London's is extensive and more modernized..... but they also pay much more to ride it.

Too much is blamed on the state. Philly as its own county too. Don't have wealthy suburbs in the county either.

Yes Philly can still be thankful for what it has in transit vs some other cities. But the state is not the problem. It only provides aid that can be cut and reinstated .... nothing is guaranteed. At least funds from the state are back in vogue from Harrisburg currently.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MB1562

Yup. Philadelphia's biggest problem is Pennsylvania itself.

It's bigger than that of course. It's too much Republican control through out the entire country. It makes me ashamed, as an American, that there isn't better advocacy for modern rail.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by moneymkt

The only thing that bothers me about septa is I can't catch a bus from University City or Center City to Northeast.

OK, but why would you want to? The El or Subway and then bus would be much quicker.

[Lenses & Lights.]

Did anyone see this in the other forum?


Philly transit has great bones but could offer better service, one expert says

[Lenses & Lights.]

I recently spent 6 months in various cities in the south, including Atlanta & Nashville. Trust me, I'm thankful for SEPTA. It can be a pain in the rear but it's stands a shoulder above many places, including LA. It boggles the mind to use public transit in these places and watch many lines if not the entire system shut down completely.

I'm talking about 10:30 PM- Midnight. You can pretty much get around the entire city on SEPTA 24-7.

[KansastoSouthphilly]

I moved here from the Kansas City suburbs which have basically no public transportation. As a result I feel that I appreciate SEPTA more than most. I've lived in 4 houses/apartments in two sections of the city (South Philly and Mt. Airy). I've never had to walk more than a block and a half to have access to a bus line. When I lived in South Philly I happily lived without a car and don't use mine most days now in Mt. Airy. I can walk to my regional rail station in 90 seconds. For the US that's pretty dang good.


If you are commuting into Center City each day the service is quite good. It is unfortunate for the region that so many jobs are now located in KOP and other auto centric areas. I also agree that cleanliness is an issue. I am definitely jealous of the nice stations they have for the DC metro. They don't necessarily have to be that fancy. I love riding the Montreal subway when I am there and it is generally very clean.


They seriously need to do something about the homeless situation in suburban and Jefferson station. I know several women who are scared to take a regional rail train in during off hours because of the saturation of homeless people and the lack of police presence. The smell can be unbelievable at times. It could be a coincidence but I blame Kenney for this. City government seems to have taken its eye off of quality of life issues under his watch. It has always been an issue but has gotten significantly worse lately. I know they are about to spend some money renovating suburban station and add new shops and restaurants. I'm not sure what good it will do if they don't manage the homeless issue.


The issues with kids getting in fights on trains and in stations is also an issue. Anyone who has ridden the subway regularly has probably witnesses this at some point first hand. I would think an increased security presence would help with this. I imagine this is an issue in other cities as well so I am not sure how we compare.


I appreciate how much SEPTA spends on maintenance. However it is depressing that the "big" plan that seems achievable is to add one measly station to the BSL. Adding additional subway lines is not even discussed. I dream of having such a line underneath Germantown Ave in NW Philly connecting to the Broad and Erie BSL station. I would be equally happy with increasing RR frequency. If I go out in the City I almost never take RR home because I don't want to wait around for an hour. I just use uber/lyft instead.

[moneymkt]

Originally Posted by PHL10

OK, but why would you want to? The El or Subway and then bus would be much quicker.

im not a huge fan of the subway