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Old 05-31-2020, 11:38 AM
 
632 posts, read 476,235 times
Reputation: 1011

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Rizzo was a crook, a terrible mayor who presided over the worst economic decline the city has ever experienced, a racist thug as police commissioner and a rotten human being. There is no good reason to memorialize him. I’m so unsurprised that old fart whites still revere that racist scumbag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
Many of those trying to yank his statue down weren't alive when he was either. He died in 1991.

He was a mostly terrible mayor. City de-industrialization and de-population picked up steam during his tenure in the 70s. There was also a recall effort in an attempt to remove him.

But, we would probably not have the commuter train tunnel through Center City without him.

Why is the statue still there? Why did it happen in the first place? I don't really have good answers.
Rizzo’s secretary and a former police commissioner appointed by Rizzo started raising money for a statue within a few months of Rizzo’s death. It was originally planned to be placed at Marconi Plaza. I don’t recall how it wound up at its current location.

Last edited by BR Valentine; 05-31-2020 at 11:48 AM..
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Old 05-31-2020, 12:34 PM
 
10,647 posts, read 6,230,850 times
Reputation: 3857
Rizzo was 100% polarizing. He let the city lose a ton of manufacturing without comment like I said, for example. He did not deserve a statue. Obviously a lot of people agree with me.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 06-01-2020 at 05:39 PM.. Reason: removed orphaned remarks
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Old 05-31-2020, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
6,948 posts, read 3,345,697 times
Reputation: 4408
Quote:
Originally Posted by FindingZen View Post
Rizzo was the Donald Trump of his era, beloved and reviled at the same time depending on where you lived.

Those who loved him had more than enough influence to have the statue built.

While I don't condone defacing property, for a good portion of the community that statue is the equivalent of a Confederate symbol.
But even here, it gets complicated.

When I lived on Waverly Walkway and worked in College Hall at Penn, I would converse regularly with a middle-aged black woman whose politics I would characterize as well to the left of my own on the Route 40 bus headed to work.

I mention that fact because during what would prove to be Frank Rizzo's last run for mayor — the rematch against Wilson Goode in which I said that each of them was running against the only person they could possibly beat; Rizzo died a little more than a month before the general — she told me on the bus one morning that she and several of her neighbors were saying, "Let's do Frank this time."

On the one area where both mayors had comparable direct experience, namely, dealing with the MOVE cult, I'd say Rizzo's shootout worked out better than Goode's firebombing that ultimately consumed a city block and a half. But on the other hand, the city's slide into near-bankruptcy in Goode's last term wouldn't have happened had Rizzo not greased the skids with very generous city union contracts.

He played on racial fears in his attempt to change the City Charter so he could run for a third consecutive term — and as Police Commissioner, he showed up on a Kensington block where residents were harassing a black family who had just moved in to tell them to cut it out.

And the reason we have the Commuter Tunnel and not the BSS Northeast Spur is not only because he backed the former as a regional asset politically, he tipped the scales in its favor personally. On his last day as President Gerald Ford's Transportation Secretary, William T. Coleman, a black Republican from this state, called his old friend Frank Rizzo to ask him which of the two grant applications the city had submitted for transit construction funding to approve, as he could only approve one of them.

Rizzo told him to approve the Commuter Tunnel. "We can get to the subway in a later phase," he reportedly said. (That later phase has yet to happen and may never.)

I think that the truest thing that can be said about Rizzo is that he was a complex and contradictory character.
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Old 05-31-2020, 02:29 PM
 
632 posts, read 476,235 times
Reputation: 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
But even here, it gets complicated.

When I lived on Waverly Walkway and worked in College Hall at Penn, I would converse regularly with a middle-aged black woman whose politics I would characterize as well to the left of my own on the Route 40 bus headed to work.

I mention that fact because during what would prove to be Frank Rizzo's last run for mayor — the rematch against Wilson Goode in which I said that each of them was running against the only person they could possibly beat; Rizzo died a little more than a month before the general — she told me on the bus one morning that she and several of her neighbors were saying, "Let's do Frank this time."

On the one area where both mayors had comparable direct experience, namely, dealing with the MOVE cult, I'd say Rizzo's shootout worked out better than Goode's firebombing that ultimately consumed a city block and a half. But on the other hand, the city's slide into near-bankruptcy in Goode's last term wouldn't have happened had Rizzo not greased the skids with very generous city union contracts.

He played on racial fears in his attempt to change the City Charter so he could run for a third consecutive term — and as Police Commissioner, he showed up on a Kensington block where residents were harassing a black family who had just moved in to tell them to cut it out.

And the reason we have the Commuter Tunnel and not the BSS Northeast Spur is not only because he backed the former as a regional asset politically, he tipped the scales in its favor personally. On his last day as President Gerald Ford's Transportation Secretary, William T. Coleman, a black Republican from this state, called his old friend Frank Rizzo to ask him which of the two grant applications the city had submitted for transit construction funding to approve, as he could only approve one of them.

Rizzo told him to approve the Commuter Tunnel. "We can get to the subway in a later phase," he reportedly said. (That later phase has yet to happen and may never.)

I think that the truest thing that can be said about Rizzo is that he was a complex and contradictory character.
Rizzo was not particularly complex or contradictory. He rose to power by merging machine patronage politics with appeals to white grievances. He was one of the first blue-collar populist conservatives in the North so in that sense he was something of an innovator. He was a Reagan Democrat before the term had been coined.

Rizzo may have occasionally told white people to back off but he was bound to his base by his loud and constant opposition to school desegregation, affirmative action, public housing and the rest of the liberal social agenda. He and his supporters had a perfectly clear understanding that civil rights legislation was an unwelcome bestowal of unearned largesse on undeserving PoC. As is the case with Trump, Rizzo’s supporters relished that he was a bully and that he made no attempt to hide his racist views.

The commuter tunnel was built because the city business establishment lobbied hard for it, Rizzo knew the subway to the Northeast wasn’t popular with his voters there and it allowed him to reward his trade union supporters with huge project at a time when construction jobs in the city were relatively scarce.

On a somewhat related note, Joe Rizzo offered a rather different take on race than his brother. Frank left East Mt. Airy (He lived at Mt. Pleasant and Mansfield) during the white flight of the 1970s. Joe (lived on Provident Rd just north of Mt. Pleasant) remained in the neighborhood long after most white people had fled. He remained a parishioner at St. Raymond long after it was a black congregation as well.
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Old 05-31-2020, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Center City
7,298 posts, read 8,407,690 times
Reputation: 10587
Looks like the statue has just a few weeks left on the Paine Plaza: https://6abc.com/politics/mayor-kenn...tatue/6223221/

I remembered Frank Rizzo from my time in Del in the 80s. I scratched my head when I came to the city in 2011 and saw a statue of him prominently posed across from City Hall. Glad to see it go.
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Old 05-31-2020, 05:48 PM
 
8,107 posts, read 18,631,690 times
Reputation: 2875
Thank you MarketStEl and BRValentine for your perspectives.
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Earth
5,788 posts, read 3,763,239 times
Reputation: 4348
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtypirate View Post
The thing that stands out to me about this photo is all the white people.

This protest turned riot wasn’t about George Lloyd. It was anarchist pieces of trash seizing an opportunity

There do seem to be a lot of white people in these protests. Is it because of lockdown with businesses and schools closed?


THe statue should probably be moved. Its like a confederate statue to some of those people.
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Earth
5,788 posts, read 3,763,239 times
Reputation: 4348
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
But even here, it gets complicated.

When I lived on Waverly Walkway and worked in College Hall at Penn, I would converse regularly with a middle-aged black woman whose politics I would characterize as well to the left of my own on the Route 40 bus headed to work.

I mention that fact because during what would prove to be Frank Rizzo's last run for mayor — the rematch against Wilson Goode in which I said that each of them was running against the only person they could possibly beat; Rizzo died a little more than a month before the general — she told me on the bus one morning that she and several of her neighbors were saying, "Let's do Frank this time."

On the one area where both mayors had comparable direct experience, namely, dealing with the MOVE cult, I'd say Rizzo's shootout worked out better than Goode's firebombing that ultimately consumed a city block and a half. But on the other hand, the city's slide into near-bankruptcy in Goode's last term wouldn't have happened had Rizzo not greased the skids with very generous city union contracts.

He played on racial fears in his attempt to change the City Charter so he could run for a third consecutive term — and as Police Commissioner, he showed up on a Kensington block where residents were harassing a black family who had just moved in to tell them to cut it out.

And the reason we have the Commuter Tunnel and not the BSS Northeast Spur is not only because he backed the former as a regional asset politically, he tipped the scales in its favor personally. On his last day as President Gerald Ford's Transportation Secretary, William T. Coleman, a black Republican from this state, called his old friend Frank Rizzo to ask him which of the two grant applications the city had submitted for transit construction funding to approve, as he could only approve one of them.

Rizzo told him to approve the Commuter Tunnel. "We can get to the subway in a later phase," he reportedly said. (That later phase has yet to happen and may never.)

I think that the truest thing that can be said about Rizzo is that he was a complex and contradictory character.

sounds like a robert moses for philly
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Old 06-01-2020, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
6,948 posts, read 3,345,697 times
Reputation: 4408
"MAGA" stands for "Make America Great Again," the slogan of Trump's 2016 campaign; you still see people wearing the signature red baseball caps emblazoned with that phrase. It's been shortened to an acronym to describe Trumpistas in general, or at least the core Trump crowd....

...not all of whom are Caucasian, at least not anymore. You must have been asleep while Kanye West was speaking.

And in the past couple of months, I've met several black men who live near me who are themselves fans of Trump, including one who despises his character but likes the results of his policies. Shoot — I think he has done some things that either needed to be done, are praiseworthy, or both. Yet I think his character and temperament make him unfit to hold the highest office in the land, regardless whether or not I agree with or applaud his specific achievements.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 06-01-2020 at 05:43 PM.. Reason: removed orphaned post
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Center City
7,298 posts, read 8,407,690 times
Reputation: 10587
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
No reason to get so nasty. Kyb01 is entitled to her opinion and is quite balanced in what she says. She has a lot of history and perspective here.
Besides, it’s against the TOS to personally attack another poster. These are either new trolls unfamiliar with the TOS, or (my guess) old trolls with their latest new usernames. It’s entirely possible these two posters are the same person.

We’ve been around long enough to know that they’ll be banned and forgotten about before the Rizzo statue is finally removed next month. It’s the only good thing to emerge from all of this senselessness.
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