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Old 06-01-2020, 08:35 AM
 
5,546 posts, read 5,708,677 times
Reputation: 3787

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
Besides, it’s against the TOS to personally attack another poster. These are either new trolls unfamiliar with the TOS, or (my guess) old trolls with their latest new usernames. It’s entirely possible these two posters are the same person.

We’ve been around long enough to know that they’ll be banned and forgotten about before the Rizzo statue is finally removed next month. It’s the only good thing to emerge from all of this senselessness.
Yes. That's the problem with social media and online discussions. People are not discussing with respect and making their points as though their beloved family members are listening (something I try to remember). I'm glad I am not on Facebook or anything else, because I can only imagine the nasty comments that are taking place on there.
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Old 06-01-2020, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
26,270 posts, read 11,654,560 times
Reputation: 19305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
I’m a white person and I’m outraged. Your point?

I’m also aware that the Rizzo statue and its prominent placement are unnecessarily provocative. People of color and the lgbt community were notoriously harassed and victimized during his tenure as police chief and mayor. It’s akin to maintaining a statue of some confederate “hero” in any southern city.

It’s 2020. It’s time to bury our reverence for a bigot who promoted and practiced overt racial division in the city.
What about the good Rizzo did for Philadelphia? Bury that too? Why do you want to erase history. Because YOU don't like ti nobody else should be able to see it??? Progressives are control freaks. Very LAME.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:27 AM
 
8,107 posts, read 18,633,386 times
Reputation: 2875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
What about the good Rizzo did for Philadelphia? Bury that too? Why do you want to erase history. Because YOU don't like ti nobody else should be able to see it??? Progressives are control freaks. Very LAME.
Not unlike the Confederate monuments, I believe the statue should be put in a private museum where those who wish to look at it may do so.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Center City
7,298 posts, read 8,409,238 times
Reputation: 10588
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Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
What about the good Rizzo did for Philadelphia? Bury that too?
Not burying anything. I just find any "positives" resulting from his time in power are outweighed by the negatives. Should we have memorials for Mussolini because he made the trains run on time?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Why do you want to erase history.
I'm acknowledging history. Some times things come into better focus with the passage of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Because YOU don't like ti nobody else should be able to see it???
I personally don't have the ability to move the statue, but I'm happy it's going to be moved soon. Just an opinion. I'm allowed to share those, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
Progressives are control freaks. Very LAME.
No more than conservatives who wish to honor confederate soldiers, restrict abortion, deny marriage to gay folks and cut food stamps during a pandemic. Very LAME, indeed. I lived in Texas for 26 years where conservatives ruled and put all sorts of controls in place. When we moved, I intentionally moved to a city that better reflects my politics.

Thanks for giving me a chance to elaborate on my prior post.
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Old 06-01-2020, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Germantown, Philadelphia
6,953 posts, read 3,348,654 times
Reputation: 4421
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
Yes. That's the problem with social media and online discussions. People are not discussing with respect and making their points as though their beloved family members are listening (something I try to remember). I'm glad I am not on Facebook or anything else, because I can only imagine the nasty comments that are taking place on there.
A Facebook profile or Page is only as good as the person maintaining it.

I have people from across the spectrum posting on my Timeline, and they sometimes do get testy in their exchanges; one Trump supporter in particular causes me to pull out my hair with his style and habits of argument. But rarely do the discussions descend into insult-trading and name-calling (and usually, the insults are directed at this guy, with whom I have spoken on the phone on several occasions now).

I probably flatter myself by attributing this to my general come-let-us-reason-together style and tone, though.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:12 PM
 
5,546 posts, read 5,708,677 times
Reputation: 3787
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
A Facebook profile or Page is only as good as the person maintaining it.

I have people from across the spectrum posting on my Timeline, and they sometimes do get testy in their exchanges; one Trump supporter in particular causes me to pull out my hair with his style and habits of argument. But rarely do the discussions descend into insult-trading and name-calling (and usually, the insults are directed at this guy, with whom I have spoken on the phone on several occasions now).

I probably flatter myself by attributing this to my general come-let-us-reason-together style and tone, though.
It's probably not fair of me to say "all social media". And I have no doubt your demeanor and style/tone instill an environment of respect. It does on City-Data.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:30 PM
 
632 posts, read 476,397 times
Reputation: 1011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
What about the good Rizzo did for Philadelphia? Bury that too? Why do you want to erase history. Because YOU don't like ti nobody else should be able to see it??? Progressives are control freaks. Very LAME.
Here’s Rizzo’s record:
  • 140,000 jobs lost
  • 260,000 population decline
  • Significant increase in property crimes
  • Violent crime higher at the end of his tenure than at the start
  • More than 150 people killed by cops with more than half of them unarmed
  • Falsified crime data
  • Rampant corruption

I could go on but I think people get the picture. He was a terrible mayor. However, much of the city’s white majority shared Rizzo’s animosity toward black people, plus his socially conservative populism. His frequent handouts to unions made him popular as well.

The people who erected the statue no doubt genuinely think he was a great mayor. However, they know quite well that it would offend a large portion of the city’s population. They’ll never admit it publicly but they absolutely intended for the statue to be a form of “owning the libs” and blacks too.

Apparently irony is dead as someone singing the praises of a goon who brutally micromanaged the lives of black people thinks that not wanting to honor said goon makes people control freaks.

Regarding history I’ll just leave this quote from Rizzo biographer Timothy Lombardo here, “It comes down to what statues do. No one learns history from a statue. What you learn from a statue is respect and reverence. The question for the present is: Are the people these statues are honoring worthy of respect and reverence?”
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:37 PM
 
10,650 posts, read 6,233,588 times
Reputation: 3857
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
No reason to get so nasty. Kyb01 is entitled to her opinion and is quite balanced in what she says. She has a lot of history and perspective here.
Both of them have forgotten, or never knew, that I have close relations who are white. Both DNA tests I took indicated that nearly half of my racial make-up is European. So the joke's on them about who they think I am.

I disliked Trump LONG before he even thought of becoming POTUS .... back in the 80s.

I actually feel sorry for many MAGAs because the president has conned them. But, I don't want to stray too far into OT.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:50 PM
 
10,650 posts, read 6,233,588 times
Reputation: 3857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
What about the good Rizzo did for Philadelphia? Bury that too? Why do you want to erase history. Because YOU don't like ti nobody else should be able to see it??? Progressives are control freaks. Very LAME.
I can think of one thing he does not really get credit for because all the other stuff about him gets in the way: convincing the federal gov( Dept of Transportation) to support building the commuter train tunnel under Center City. One of the best things to happen to Phila. area transit.

Not every Democrat is a progressive, btw. And most progressives are not really Democrats. Proof? Bernie Sanders.

My biggest problem with Rizzo was how he seemed to not notice the decline in our life's blood: manufactoring. And, as I said, the out migration from the city picked up steam while he was mayor. For those 2 reasons it baffles what so much of the Rizzo love is about.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Center City
7,298 posts, read 8,409,238 times
Reputation: 10588
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA View Post
It's probably not fair of me to say "all social media". And I have no doubt your demeanor and style/tone instill an environment of respect. It does on City-Data.
I agree. I’m often embarrassed when I read Sandy’s measured and thoughtful posts after weighing in myself.

It’s good we have at least one person classing up the joint.
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