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View Poll Results: Next Neighborhood(s)
Templetown 2 5.71%
Point Breeze 8 22.86%
Gray's Ferry 0 0%
Pennsport 6 17.14%
Delaware Riverfront (Frankford to Washington Ave) 4 11.43%
East Mount Airy 6 17.14%
South Kensington 7 20.00%
Brewerytown 10 28.57%
OTHER 10 28.57%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-24-2019, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia Pa
667 posts, read 452,723 times
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I'm honestly surprised Gray Ferry isn't getting more props. The neighborhood is very small, it's right on the river and there is a new pedestrian bridge that leads directly to University City. With the explosion of U City, I personally can see this area changing quickly. However, I'm not all that intimately familiar with it to be honest...
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Old 01-24-2019, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia Pa
667 posts, read 452,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyb01 View Post
Cobbs Creek and Angora have incredible houses....some houses that would cost a million or more to recreate now. It's worth more attention. But, too many people have a really false impression of them...you apparently.
I know Cobbs Creek fairly well actually. My reply dismissing it was not because of the housing. I personally see very little chance of Cobbs Creek pulling it together in the next several years. Maybe in a decade or more...

You apparently feel differently, which is obviously fine and you very well may be correct, but in the spirit of this thread, care to expound?
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:00 AM
 
Location: The City of Brotherly Love
1,142 posts, read 810,774 times
Reputation: 2860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennsport View Post
Templetown: Very true, I'm an "East of Broader" for the most part, so was thinking more when Girard from around 4th to 9th connects with, say around Berks. The Badlands are getting squeezed by development. Not sure this will fill in quickly, but I honestly think it's connecting eventually. However, you bring up a good parameter of Ridge Ave and Broad. I can totally see Francisville leak north.

South Kensington: Question: I feel like it's just too expansive. Thoughts?

OTHER: Here's where we disagree substantially...
- W. Kensington: yes, possibly but a lot needs to happen to spark this
- Belmont: Hmmm. This area never seems to progress
- East Parkside: Great Housing, would love it to happen, but lotta ground to cover
- Strawberry Mansion: See above. I would actually move there tomorrow if it was on the way up.
- Cobbs Creek: Seriously?
- Kingsessing: Didn't the city just mark half the neighborhood for affordable housing and/or section 8?
- Nicetown: Pretty far up there
- Olney: Not really sure about this
- Lawncrest: Really really far out from where the city development is happening
- Harrowgate: I don't really see this at all
South Kensington is expansive, but I think its central location to several other neighborhoods will ultimately overcome that fact. I still go over to that neighborhood to check out development patterns (although less so now that I've graduated from Temple), and the expansiveness of new development still continues to shock me! Before I graduated in May, I remember seeing a zoning notice for new homes proposed at a vacant lot on 5th and Norris! That would have been unimaginable once upon a time! South Kensington's biggest impediment, imo, is the fact that it doesn't have a true commercial corridor within the neighborhood. I solidly believe that Germantown Avenue can (and eventually will) serve this purpose.

Here are some justifications for a few others:

-W. Kensington: There is already some movement in the neighborhood. Before I settled on West Philly, I was looking at a new construction apartment near Front and Huntingdon. Also, I'm not sure how frequently you visit Kensington Avenue, but the section between Front Street and Lehigh Avenue is very tame, even late at night. We're also starting to see some new construction along this section of Kensington Ave, which will hopefully bolster foot traffic in the area. I can only see this neighborhood exploding once Norris Square and East Kensington start to see increasing price pressures.

-Belmont: It's a neighborhood that continues to surprise me: the existing housing stock is solid, it's along Lancaster Avenue, the 10 runs through the neighborhood, and Fairmount Park is close by. By all estimations, it should have redeveloped quicker than what it has experienced! I know that Mantua still has a while to go before its filled in, but I could see Belmont taking off eventually. This will especially become true if Schuylkill Yards and the 30th Street Station District Plans come to fruition.

-East Parkside: Mostly the same as Belmont, except it has grander homes and direct access to Fairmount Park. The big issue is a lack of heavy rail transit. While the 40 does directly connect the neighborhood to the El and Center City, I still think that people have an aversion to taking the bus.

-Strawberry Mansion: Same situation as East Parkside, although I think Strawberry Mansion's rebirth will happen quicker due to the rate at which Brewerytown is filling in.

-Cobbs Creek: There are some beautiful, affordable homes in the area, especially once you're south of Spruce Street. There are also a few large, grand homes around Cobbs Creek Parkway, and the Cobbs Creek Trail provides area residents with a means of recreation. I think that this neighborhood will turn around, but its redevelopment pattern will start southeast and work its way northwest. I live in Cedar Park, so I'm starting to see what's happening to the lower portion of 52nd Street. Believe it or not, there are a few new boutique businesses opening up, especially at 52nd and Larchwood! There's also new construction going up at 51st and Baltimore, and to the areas south.

-Kingsessing: I should have clarified my opinion: I meant in the area bounded by 52nd Street to the west, the Media/Elwyn Line tracks to the north, Kingsessing Avenue to the south, and 49th Street to the east. There are some beautiful homes within these boundaries.

-Nicetown: This is my far-out guess. It will most likely not experience significant redevelopment in my lifetime (I'm 23), but it will see some change.

-Olney/Fern Rock/Lawncrest: These are neighborhoods that are transit-accessible, yet have an abundance of parking. Someone looking to buy a cheap-but-sturdy home with a garage with transit accessibility would find exactly what they're looking for in those areas.

-Harrowgate: Believe it or not, there has already been a LOT of redevelopment in this neighborhood! I'm not sure if you frequent this area or not, but there have been a ton of high-end loft conversions. Several of those old factories that one would see from the El, have been converted into lofts.


Also, here's a neighborhood that I failed to mention the first time around: Allegheny West, which is that triangular neighborhood bounded by Ridge, Allegheny, and Hunting Park Avenues. This neighborhood is actually pretty stable, has seen some new construction, and borders East Falls. The big disadvantage, however, is the lack of connectivity to Center City. Converting the 61 to a Night Owl operation would fix this issue.
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia Pa
667 posts, read 452,723 times
Reputation: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013 View Post
South Kensington is expansive, but I think its central location to several other neighborhoods will ultimately overcome that fact. I still go over to that neighborhood to check out development patterns (although less so now that I've graduated from Temple), and the expansiveness of new development still continues to shock me! Before I graduated in May, I remember seeing a zoning notice for new homes proposed at a vacant lot on 5th and Norris! That would have been unimaginable once upon a time! South Kensington's biggest impediment, imo, is the fact that it doesn't have a true commercial corridor within the neighborhood. I solidly believe that Germantown Avenue can (and eventually will) serve this purpose.

Here are some justifications for a few others:

-W. Kensington: There is already some movement in the neighborhood. Before I settled on West Philly, I was looking at a new construction apartment near Front and Huntingdon. Also, I'm not sure how frequently you visit Kensington Avenue, but the section between Front Street and Lehigh Avenue is very tame, even late at night. We're also starting to see some new construction along this section of Kensington Ave, which will hopefully bolster foot traffic in the area. I can only see this neighborhood exploding once Norris Square and East Kensington start to see increasing price pressures.

-Belmont: It's a neighborhood that continues to surprise me: the existing housing stock is solid, it's along Lancaster Avenue, the 10 runs through the neighborhood, and Fairmount Park is close by. By all estimations, it should have redeveloped quicker than what it has experienced! I know that Mantua still has a while to go before its filled in, but I could see Belmont taking off eventually. This will especially become true if Schuylkill Yards and the 30th Street Station District Plans come to fruition.

-East Parkside: Mostly the same as Belmont, except it has grander homes and direct access to Fairmount Park. The big issue is a lack of heavy rail transit. While the 40 does directly connect the neighborhood to the El and Center City, I still think that people have an aversion to taking the bus.

-Strawberry Mansion: Same situation as East Parkside, although I think Strawberry Mansion's rebirth will happen quicker due to the rate at which Brewerytown is filling in.

-Cobbs Creek: There are some beautiful, affordable homes in the area, especially once you're south of Spruce Street. There are also a few large, grand homes around Cobbs Creek Parkway, and the Cobbs Creek Trail provides area residents with a means of recreation. I think that this neighborhood will turn around, but its redevelopment pattern will start southeast and work its way northwest. I live in Cedar Park, so I'm starting to see what's happening to the lower portion of 52nd Street. Believe it or not, there are a few new boutique businesses opening up, especially at 52nd and Larchwood! There's also new construction going up at 51st and Baltimore, and to the areas south.

-Kingsessing: I should have clarified my opinion: I meant in the area bounded by 52nd Street to the west, the Media/Elwyn Line tracks to the north, Kingsessing Avenue to the south, and 49th Street to the east. There are some beautiful homes within these boundaries.

-Nicetown: This is my far-out guess. It will most likely not experience significant redevelopment in my lifetime (I'm 23), but it will see some change.

-Olney/Fern Rock/Lawncrest: These are neighborhoods that are transit-accessible, yet have an abundance of parking. Someone looking to buy a cheap-but-sturdy home with a garage with transit accessibility would find exactly what they're looking for in those areas.

-Harrowgate: Believe it or not, there has already been a LOT of redevelopment in this neighborhood! I'm not sure if you frequent this area or not, but there have been a ton of high-end loft conversions. Several of those old factories that one would see from the El, have been converted into lofts.


Also, here's a neighborhood that I failed to mention the first time around: Allegheny West, which is that triangular neighborhood bounded by Ridge, Allegheny, and Hunting Park Avenues. This neighborhood is actually pretty stable, has seen some new construction, and borders East Falls. The big disadvantage, however, is the lack of connectivity to Center City. Converting the 61 to a Night Owl operation would fix this issue.
Thanks for that comprehensive overview. Admittedly, I'm less familiar with the neighborhoods you mention than I am with the ones closer to the city proper. However, I think most of what you list above is a long play rather than the "next neighborhood(s)" within the early to mid 2020s. I do hope that East Parkside and Strawberry Mansion make it though. Those are beautiful areas with connectivity to the park and the city. Really cool section of Philly that has been broadly overlooked for a while now...
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:19 AM
 
Location: The City of Brotherly Love
1,142 posts, read 810,774 times
Reputation: 2860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennsport View Post
Thanks for that comprehensive overview. Admittedly, I'm less familiar with the neighborhoods you mention than I am with the ones closer to the city proper. However, I think most of what you list above is a long play rather than the "next neighborhood(s)" within the early to mid 2020s. I do hope that East Parkside and Strawberry Mansion make it though. Those are beautiful areas with connectivity to the park and the city. Really cool section of Philly that has been broadly overlooked for a while now...
I could have saved myself a lot of time if I would have read that statement! I thought this was a thread covering a longer term. My bad haha
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Old 01-24-2019, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia Pa
667 posts, read 452,723 times
Reputation: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan2013 View Post
I could have saved myself a lot of time if I would have read that statement! I thought this was a thread covering a longer term. My bad haha
LOL... we like long-term outlooks here as well!
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Old 01-24-2019, 10:39 AM
 
239 posts, read 139,176 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennsport View Post
I'm honestly surprised Gray Ferry isn't getting more props. The neighborhood is very small, it's right on the river and there is a new pedestrian bridge that leads directly to University City. With the explosion of U City, I personally can see this area changing quickly. However, I'm not all that intimately familiar with it to be honest...
Living in PB as I do, I drive through this area fairly often. I think you're right in that it, along with neighboring "Forgotten Bottom" *seem* like they should be bigger targets. In my experience, though, I think they appear to be more convenient than they really are. The northern border of both 'hoods is Washington, so even the northernmost reaches are a bit of a walk to the South St. pedestrian bridge and UC beyond. The rest is basically in more isolated no-man's land between the 25th St. viaduct and 76, and aside from a couple of buses, is not especially convenient to anywhere else in the city.

Eventually the pressure from elsewhere will get too great, but I think it will take a lot more economic development along the river to really force the issue.
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Old 01-24-2019, 11:47 AM
 
Location: The City
22,381 posts, read 33,156,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireshaker View Post
Living in PB as I do, I drive through this area fairly often. I think you're right in that it, along with neighboring "Forgotten Bottom" *seem* like they should be bigger targets. In my experience, though, I think they appear to be more convenient than they really are. The northern border of both 'hoods is Washington, so even the northernmost reaches are a bit of a walk to the South St. pedestrian bridge and UC beyond. The rest is basically in more isolated no-man's land between the 25th St. viaduct and 76, and aside from a couple of buses, is not especially convenient to anywhere else in the city.

Eventually the pressure from elsewhere will get too great, but I think it will take a lot more economic development along the river to really force the issue.


I fell like if the viaduct were even developed into a rail link (say from the navy yard (connecting to the bsl at AT&T) up the western side of S Philly and the Viaduct row (even if under) and into U City and around to the Pennsy cut) this area could really thrive


it just feels a lot rougher around the edges then the eastern side of broad




also would to see a light rail line along Washington and into U City (could also connect with an De Ave light rail) and maybe develop Washington Ave moreso (both the eastern (of Broad) and even more so western stretch of Washington could use some mid rise apartments and help connect places


end of the day we really need jobs more than anything though
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Old 01-24-2019, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia Pa
667 posts, read 452,723 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
I fell like if the viaduct were even developed into a rail link (say from the navy yard (connecting to the bsl at AT&T) up the western side of S Philly and the Viaduct row (even if under) and into U City and around to the Pennsy cut) this area could really thrive


it just feels a lot rougher around the edges then the eastern side of broad




also would to see a light rail line along Washington and into U City (could also connect with an De Ave light rail) and maybe develop Washington Ave moreso (both the eastern (of Broad) and even more so western stretch of Washington could use some mid rise apartments and help connect places


end of the day we really need jobs more than anything though
Very good insight from you and Fireshaker. So question to both of you: As U City continues to expand and Center City over the bridge gets basically at capacity (where it pretty much is now), where do you see the residential spreading? Or do you? U City might be convenient enough to get to from pretty much every city neighborhood.
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Old 01-24-2019, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,335 posts, read 744,209 times
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Kensington. Point Breeze and Brewerytown all are the next neighborhoods.

The development patterns are all extremely strong in all 3.

Kensington. Feeding off the explosive growth of Fishtown and having the subway access are HUGE. Unfortunately the drug epidemic though is only getting stronger, so this has stifled some of its potential growth.

Point Breeze. Also PRIME for being the next hottest. It really contends to Point Breeze Ave. taking off as the commercial corridor. You really need a strong corridor to be a 'hot' destination neighborhood.

Brewerytown. I give Brewerytown my #1 vote. The development is insane right now, and W. Girard Ave has the bones of a lovely commercial corridor. Once the Green Eggs opens, you are going to see a HUGE domino effect, as all the disposable income from Fairmount starts making its way to Girard. Yes you have some other destination establishments currently on W. Girard. (i.e Crime & Punishment and Ryebrew) but Green Eggs is highly the most recognized in the city overall.

Historically the largest % difference of home values in the city have been the Brewerytown/Fairmount Girard Ave. corridor. Fairmount is a very established neighborhood, and the spillover is definitely happening.

Granted; Fairmount is not hip, nor young. It is mostly established families with children and highly disposable income. (probably more than Fishtown to be frank).

The transit access is also impressive. You have 3 bus lines to Center City, and a 4th one arriving next month, making access to Center City incredibly efficient. And the trolley makes East/West access equally efficient. Typically a bus to Center City arrives every 5 - 10 minutes. And with the 4th line that headway % will only strengthen to most likely 90%.

Plus having Fairmount Park at your doorstep is also the other BIG selling point. Point Breeze and Kensington do not offer sufficient park space.

AND it is the closest of the neighborhoods to Center City. Yes Point Breeze is also close but just a tad further. A 10 minute walk from 29/Girard literally gets you to the Art Museum + Parkway w. Musuems + Whole Foods + Target, etc. Impressive.

Last edited by rowhomecity; 01-24-2019 at 02:14 PM..
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